Very loose passive table , old man calling stations everywhere. 1 guy to my immediate right seemed to be the only guy at table I was worried about. Appeared to be from out of town, never saw him before. Haven't seen him play too many hands in the 40 minutes I've been at table. Rest of table was old timer regs that I knew pretty well and who knew me.

Hero (550) MP seen as Aggro but sound, not limping too many hands. only hand I showed down I stacked one of these guys with nut str.
V1 (150) UTG+1 raised to 10
V2 (650) UTG+2 called (this is the younger guy I was worried about)
Hero (550) MP called with 22 knowing full well I would get at least 2 more calls behind.
4 calls behind

$70 pot
Flop
532r
V1 bets $25
V2 asks how much v1 has begin and calls
$120 in pot
Hero??

Some more info.
I'm worried that calling this small bet will bring in 4 more callers behind me and essentially give a free card to everyone. As these guys aren't likely to fold to a $25 bet with anything, especially a 4

What do you think V2 does with 55 or 33 here?

Raise to 100

Proceed from here.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums

There's $145 in the pot after we call but before we raise (and yes, we should raise).

Two options IMO:
If you think that V1 is strong here, and will stick it in, then your best play is to raise to $80, get 1 - 2 more callers, V1 will ship it in for $140 total which reopens the betting for you to raise again. We can sandwich a few more callers into the pot, we get all of V1's stack into the middle, and we can then 4bet the pot and potentially push everyone else out or at least give them the wrong odds to call off with whatever hand they are drawing too.

If you don't think that V1 will just shove it in over a raise though then raise to $125 and shove most turn cards that are not an Ace, 4 or 6.

Great question, but when he asked what v1 had behind him I kinda took that as a "is it worth it for me to call with this draw" kind of question.

If he had 55 or 33 I would expect him to raise for fear of the same things I was afraid of with this flop and 7 callers

I honestly put v1 on a bigger over pair (hadn't seen him raise once) and I dont think he would fold it to a raise

Right, but will be call or will he raise when you raise?
If you make it $65 will he flat or will he shove it in? That's the question that defines how we should play the hand IMO.

^^^this.

Could make it a dream situation.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using 2+2 Forums

If I make it $65 I would bet he flats. He seems scared to bet. 25 into a 70 pot otf and only a 10 raise with a big pair pf tell me he is a little shy to put big amounts in the pot on his own

You're seen as aggro, and V1 is a calling station who is probably going to call a decent raise here. I would also start considering if we are willing to be playing for our stacks against V2 whose continuing range here would mostly be decent PP, made 55,33 sets and a few A(532), 67 SD combos, plus the pretty unlikely but not impossible made 46, A4 combos. His overpairs should be the bigger part of his range, but still I'm not going crazy over his flat calling range here. The sets would probably have re-raised though.

This is a pretty tough spot to evaluate what the optimal line is, but my gut tells me to put in a decent but not ridiculous raise.. I'd probably go for $60-80 in this spot, I like $70. Presumably V1 folds or shoves.

Now what's our plan if V2 raises big? We happy to put our stack in here if need be?

Say we bet $70, and V1 shoves, and V2 calls or shoves over him. With this stack depth I don't like calling a shove from V2, but it may be inevitable. If V2 bows out we are obviously pretty happy to get it in against V1. And if V1 calls and v2 flat calls, I also am not happy about it, but probably getting it in.

Now if they both simply call, then I'd half-pot the turn with about a half-pot bet left for the river.

$60 is a stupid tiny raise.
We are making people call $35 more into a pot that will be $180 at that point.

The only reason I would ever raise that small is if I have stone absolute stones and wanted lots of weak calls, or if I was hoping to induce.

My plan was absolutely to raise (which I did) and to hope to get v1 ai, and I was prepared to fold if V2 shoved because he absolutely did not strike me as someone who was gii with a draw

My point of the thread (if it isnt obvious by now) is basically trying to figure out the optimal raise in this spot so I don't leave any value on the table, but at the same time, I didn't want a 4 way (or more) pot

Yeah the idea is to induce a shove from V1 with the sizing dependent on what you think his tipping point would be, which I am guessing starts at that stupid tiny 60ish raise sizing which he might convince himself to shove over.

So, I ended up raising to $110, and EVERYONE folded. That's why I wrote this thread. I feel like I left a lot of value out there. Guy behind me said if I didn't raise, he was going to raise with 54o. V2 showed 47s when he folded. It just pained me that I folded everyone out with that bet, and I wondered if maybe it was too much, but at the same time, with this board, I had to make people PAY to see the turn ...

Well you sure as hell would be kicking yourself if you check, it checks around and straight completing card lands. The bet is mandatory here, the only question is how much and how do you think V's might continue and what's you plan when V2 does.

Don't worry about missed value on this particular hand, you need to target the value in this situation against their ranges with a long run perspective. I think $110 is larger than needed though. You want V1 to continue, and you don't want V2 to only continue with his made hands, which I think is what the bet to $110 ends up doing. To me that just announces: I got a good made hand but I'm scared of that wet flop, I want to take it down right here, which is what you achieved. But it also gives Vs a mostly pretty easy decision.