Hi! I don't think I'm in the wrong forum because I don't think online players would give good advice. Im working on my live game, just moved up to $2-5, and already feel a little outclassed. Id like to know what stakes folks think I should play for in online cash games (and whether I should play 6, 9, or blitz handed) if my goals are just to improve my live game, get some data that I can analyze, and practice the concepts that I'm studying. Is there a game where the player pool will more closely resemble live play? Should I play $5nl because the play is looser? Should i play $25 or $50nl because I'm trying to learn how to outthink thinking players?

So I've played live since 2004 and probably logged 3-4,000 hours. In the last 8 years I tracked results and played 1200 hours of $1-2 for $10/hour. In the last year I played 20 hours per week of $1-2 for $20/hour and it was my main income. I plan to play a lot more next year and as much as possible at $2-5.

I'm only just now getting started really studying the game. I've quickly realized there's a ton I don't know and that I've only had good win-rates because my opponents have been bad and because I'm generally good at strategy games. But the slow speed of live makes it hard to practice what I'm studying.

So I'd like to get online to improve my live game. I've never been a winning player online but that's mostly because I play it different than live. I don't play online often, I play intoxicated and punt sometimes, I find it boring tedious/nitty and I try to run over people, or I feel gambly or life tilted and punt sometimes. Generally though I just play WAY too loose online. Live I've got a really wide range but online it's hard to play bananas tight at the micros or generally care enough about possibly winning $30 to grind. I'd do it though if it was for training purposes.

How has anyone used online to train for live play? Thanks!!!

They're both the same game, yet so different. However, someone good online should have no issues playing live, while the opposite rarely holds. The lowest stakes online will usually be a bit tougher than 2/5 or even some 5/10 games. If you can beat even 10nl, 2/5 live should be a cake walk. I'd absolutely recommend playing online to improve. For one, you'll see so many more hands. Secondly you'll be able to review the hands easier as you don't need to remember anything. Right now, 6 max seems to be more popular than 9 handed full ring, but it's the same concepts, you'll just have tighter ranges in EP 9 handed.

While a bit outdated, the COTW in the micro forum apply to live as much as live. I'd recommend a training site as well.

Lastly, it sounds like your mental game could use some work if you want to thrive. Try "The Mental Game of Poker" by tendler.

Ill take the opposite side of the argument and say that online wont help your live game at all and actually may hurt it. The games are too different. The players play too differently. Betting patterns are different.

You'll need to fold lots of spots in a live game that you would get all in online....ect

Lord forbid someone learns how to adjust to different opponents. I mean, after a single online session, we'll never be able to fold our QQ to the centenarian with the oxygen tank again. I mean, it's not like this is a game requiring critical thinking. Once we have a robotic approach down, we shouldn't ever need to alter it. I guess that's why foreign online players continue flooding into US poker markets, to get schooled by real pros who play live and understand that no gamble = no future.

I have no idea what point youre trying to make here.

C'mon man. You know exactly.

No, I really dont and I read it 3 times.

The guy wants to know if he can play online to collect a bunch of data to analyze and make his live game better. That's a really bad mistake IMO.

The players are too different. It would be like collecting a bunch of data from live 1/2 players and using it to play live 5/10. It will never work.

Your last 2 sentences contradict each other so I cant make heads or tails of it.

Mike,

He's just asking if playing online will improve his game. I certainly think it will. If you can find ways to beat players online, you'll find ways to beat players live. You seem to be assuming that we won't adjust to the ranges and frequencies of live players after playing online for some reason.

Probably because I see people not able to do it everyday and they get destroyed.

IMO, being really good at both live and online poker is very tough. Few can do it especially while playing both regularly. Its kind of like playing tournaments and cash games. They are totally different. Obviously the really good players can switch back and forth, but OP probably isnt in the really good category yet or he wouldn't be asking these questions.

He basically just wants to get more hands in as quickly as possible to practice what hes been studying but what a lot of what he sees and learns about online players will hurt his live game. Just my opinion. He can do whatever he wants with it.

you probably can’t beat online for a multitude of reasons. Main reason is that it’s much tougher, but second seems like you have a lot of mental leaks. You have to address those head-on, and that will also help your live game. Also online people make a lot less mistakes and donk off stacks less often, so any mistakes you make online are much more glaring than live where a lot of degens are just waiting to donk off their stack to you/gift it. Playing online in of itself wont make you that much better for live. It’s about the process/understanding/applications, and it’s very difficult for most people to separate the two properly.

Also, playing live and online at the same time can cause clashes in your game if you aren’t fully aware of the dynamics. Realistically, you will get better by playing online but there are also numerous downsides. And you will probably not improve significantly in some short time period, or anything like that.

eg not adjusting properly when switching back and forth, opportunity cost since you’ll be playing for basically burgers (jumping to anything higher than 25NL is a disaster and even 25 would almost surely be one too for you, no offense)

If you've got a year where you're beating 1/2 for $20/hr, you're already crushing the game. You should be a winner at 2/5 long term, although not at 10BB/hr. The play isn't that much different. It is mainly that there aren't as many weak players and the best players are bit better at extracting value. It may be that the dollar amounts are much bigger that is bothering you. It is still 100BB. It is just $500, not $200.

Anyway, you have two objectives, not one. First, you want to gather some data about players at 2/5. You're just not going to get that information playing online. The players are just different. It is a world of difference in calling an all in at 5nl,150BB or for $7.50 vs. 2/5, 150BB or $750. In this sense, Mike is correct.

However, QS is correct that you can play micro online to work on some plays and gather some experience. You'll need to turn off your HUD (you don't have one live) and play 9 handed. 6 max is a different beast and just isn't a matter of pretending that the first three players folded.

Good luck.