All of that is true vs lots of guys. This guy just seemed very disciplined and ABC. Almost robotic. I didnt see him opening any speculative type hands UTG.

When he opened UTG and called my 3 bet, I put him on a pretty tight range.
An ABC player isnt going to have much more than AA-JJ or AK, maybe AQs.

This is 1/2 short stack mentality. When you are 260 BBs deep, this hand is likely to be just a pair of Qs by the river and if big money starts going into the pot, they are very very very likely beat. Not saying to not go for value but...

edit: Didn't see results... but yeah.

I agree. he never has AJ here. 89? maybe. 88 or 99 turned into a bluff? possibly. 55 seems possible.

You don't beat much, so if this is a value bet you really are not getting the right price to make a call. But this play really looks bluffy. Very similar to missed flush draws who are OOP and pot the river.

I call here 75% of the time.

Im sure many ABC players are still opening 1010 UTG, and 66-99 at a good frequency. Maybe aggregate 66 @ 30%, 77 @ 40%, 88/99 at 65%. And vs a strong 3x 3-bet, I think they’re going to peel a good amount of 66-99 if not all. I’m quite abc preflop from EP (i dont open junk like 65s-J10s UTG/UTG + 1/UTG +2) but in this scenario 200 bigs deep if I ever open 55-1010 i am snap calling vs the 3b. Maybe if it was 4x i’d fold 55-77 but no way 1010, or even 99/88. But yeah we can probably give him reduced frequencies of 55-99 but imo it still comprises a good amount of his range otf. Even if we only give 30-40% (that’s pretty reasonable imo but probably on the low side), that’s 10-12 combos of weak pairs that probably arent folding vs a 1/3 or 45-55% psb.

Line by him seems pretty weird and pretty bad imo, he folds all your bluffs and you only call with x% of QQ. If you were bluffing with AK/AQ or some airball he let you off the hook. Plus I think if he knew you had QQ you are most likely going for a vbet anyway if he checks.

In general tho I think when we show aggression and Vs donk river we can comfortably fold almost all our 1 pair hands

Yeah one of the worst flops for QQ. ??????? you flopped an overpair what kind of flop are you going to be thrilled with? Only low paired flops with no overs and when you flop a set?

Bet 3 streets on most runouts and stop putting villain on hands that beat yours and put him on a range. You will find you beat a lot more hands than beat yours on a J74 flop when you have QQ.

Good luck getting 3 streets of value with QQ on a JxxTx board when you 3 bet an UTG raiser. If you're able to do that, you must play in some of the fishiest games on earth.

I can also say this is 1/2 nit mentality, QQ is a very strong hand, especially on a J74 flop where V shouldn't have 2 pairs or overpairs. So we are basically only beat by sets. I would much rather check back QQ on a more dangerous board where V can have a lot more combos that will have us beat.

I clearly stated most runouts but yeah, I generally play in looser games where people are not going to be folding their suited broadways to 3bets and also opening 100% of them from UTG. I will have a lot of bluffs on a JxxTx board so I am definitely firing away with QQ and getting paid by worse hands. I am from Europe, so given your description of V being a young European I assume he will also not play a nitty playstyle. I am actually quite surprised he did not 4bet you pf unless he knows you are going to fold hands as strong as QQ pf in that spot as you probably do not have any bluffs when 3betting UTG+1.

I think I sometimes just call preflop here.

SCREAMING strength with a 3 bet what if he 4 bets?

flop I’m more likely to check back KK OR AA on this dry flop QQ I bet at a higher frequency given that we don’t wanna give hands like AK a free card.

We could also bet very small on this flop like 30-40 check the turn and call a river bet. A

Is it bad if I think in villains position I would have no 4-betting range here pre, especially against someone I found competent?

I haven't read any replies in this thread, two things come to mind for me

1. he could be value betting worse
2. his bluff range is potentially wider than AK. Not everyone raises utg and calls a 3b with TT+, AK, AQ. Not everyone is "standard"

Flop is mostly a bet but do not mind a check on occasion. I prefer a check with my KK/AA type stuff so I don't give free card to a hand that can make a better pair than me. When you check flop you are going to get V to think the old fashioned "I put you on AK" pretty often.

Turn bet size is pretty small, again projecting weakness. Bet larger for value since you are pricing in his pair plus gutshots, oesd, etc. There's more value to be had here from his top pair hands.

If your reasoning on the turn is that you're ahead since he checked to you twice, then the river doesn't change much and you should still be ahead. You look uncomfortable with your hand with these bet sizings, play your range more imo. If he is never getting to showdown and just playing his cards as it appears he is then he probably won't put a lot of pressure on you.

Also I don't think he's necessarily any good at poker because he has figured out how to size his preflop raises.

The river card doesnt change anything but his river lead does. If he "probably wont put a lot of pressure" on me, then he probably isnt bluffing the river, right?

Some people will say that not 4 betting AA/KK, especially when this deep, is a mistake. I dont agree with that.

I think you played the hand passively enough so that most young people with a hopeless hand would give themselves good odds to steal this pot from you. The river lead isn't a fun time or anything but it's poor strategy to induce a stab and then fold to it.

That's interesting that being deep would make some folks want to 4-bet, because to me it would be the opposite. Turning my hand face over as AA/KK deep seems like a recipe to allow our opponent to play perfect against us when we can't make a reasonable 4-bet to shrink the SPR to a level that allows us to GII on just about any flop. I guess this is assuming we are never 4-betting light in the situation, which I also just don't do because the 3-betting range of most of my opponents is so narrow.

That was my first thought, at least with respect to the middle PPs. Difficult to believe young Euro isn't calling a 3-bet to set-mine for $60 when effective stacks are $1000.

This looks to me like TT or 89 for his value range. You can sprinkle a couple of combos of whiffed hands in his bluff range but if I call it would be to get a better read in him. I acknowledge we are behind mostly when we call here


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This deep it's generally a mistake but it isn't a big one and it's pretty common. Villain is setting himself to be OOP against hero in a large pot, which is not ideal. But in a 3 bet pot action often gets frozen by both players ranges being strong and neither one wanting to stack off with only a single pair.

Yah the whole thread is a result oriented humble brag to show Mike lost the minimum with QQ vs. KK rather than playing range vs. range but that’s par the course with him.

“Don’t flat 3bets out of position”
-the Bible

I agree and I almost called. I probably should have although the fold was correct this time.

??? Id much rather stack off 200BBs with one pair in a 4 bet pot than in a 3 bet pot that was only 3 bet to $60.

LOL. You never give up. Youre such a clown.

This. What a complete garbage thread and botched hand. Folding is awful. Terrible sizing and line every street. Couldn't wait to get the brag out and posted results in 6 hours.

Why did you decide to fold?

This is my take as well.