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Old 06-07-2013, 08:10 AM   #1
elcebro
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Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

The Villain is the same old gentleman from a couple of my posts this month.

The game is 6 handed 2/4$ late night game. Hero have just arrived at the table and bought in for 800$ - table is playing very deep, 1k-3k stacks.

First hand Hero was dealt Aces in the Big Blind, 3-bet a raise and a call, got 2 callers, cbet an A-high board and won otf.

This is 2nd hand of the night.

Villain 1 - Lady of unidentifiable age, goodlooking, regular, loose preflop, very straightforward postflop. As I pick up from the table talk, she's been hot tonight, killing the table. She sits with stacks of chips aranged neatly in front of her, two of them are blacks. Limps in UTG.

Villain 2 - Unknown Is a huge black male in his late 30s', smoking hookah, talking a lot and he have recently rebought for 1k. First impression - very loose and probably quite bad. Limps in CO.

Villain 3 - The Old Man Is pretty aggresive and competent old-timer some would recognise from the previous hands I've posted. He has just over 1k. Raises to 27$ from BU.

Hero Is early 20s white boy, I've won a little last time I've played here, most of the players, except for V2 have played with me before. Just over 900$ looks down at JJ. in SB.

Villain 4 - Old Man Coffee Is a weak-tight old gentleman I know well from playing1/2$, playing for time, not for money, I'm a bit surprised to find him at a bigger game sitting at a >3k stack. BB

Hero should have done what?

Last edited by elcebro; 06-07-2013 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:05 AM   #2
jt000
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

I wish i could buy in that deep at my local 2/4 game.

It's really up to you depending on how competent you are and your history and reads on V from previous times.

Being only your second hand, and OOP against an aggressive an competent player, i wouldn't really mind just calling and playing passively, if you have to let it go even on the flop so what, you only forfeit $27. Although you have played with him before, there are times where people play different on different nights, so you still might not have a solid read on him.

By 3-betting, obviously you could just take it down PF or with your (im assuming) c-bet OTF, but obviously if he calls the flop, depending on board, you are suddenly in a pretty big pot OOP in only your second hand...
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:43 AM   #3
Raidion
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

Call, no reason to 3 bet if he is going to play fit or fold postflop anyway, especially since his range has pretty decent equity against yours. If he flops an overpair, he's never really folding much anyway and you really don't want to put in money from behind, OOP when you can get all the money in postflop.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:15 PM   #4
NicholasK
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

I'd call to setmine. This pot is likely going to be 4-5 way and unimproved jacks won't be very good there. If you raise you'll still probably have 3-4 people going to the flop and now you'd have a bloated pot OOP with an easily dominated hand and the betting lead.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:24 PM   #5
brojaysimpson
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Flat call. If it goes 4 or more ways I'm leading all flops where I'm an overpair, if there's 3 or less people I'll check call most flops where I'm an over pair

If we flop an underpair I'm probably fine just check folding against someone who may put a ton of pressure against us.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:33 PM   #6
Jmrode67
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

Agree w Call. Are you sure the guy was smoking Hookah (was it at the table?).
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:51 PM   #7
elcebro
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

Okay, so call pre is fine with the majority. So lets get to the interesting part.

Villain 1 - Lady of unidentifiable age, goodlooking, regular, loose preflop, very straightforward postflop. As I pick up from the table talk, she's been hot tonight, killing the table. She sits with stacks of chips aranged neatly in front of her, two of them are blacks. Limps in UTG.

Villain 2 - Unknown Is a huge black male in his late 30s', smoking hookah, talking a lot and he have recently rebought for 1k. First impression - very loose and probably quite bad. Limps in CO.

Villain 3 - The Old Man Is pretty aggresive and competent old-timer some would recognise from the previous hands I've posted. He has just over 1k. Raises to 27$ from BU.

Hero Is early 20s white boy, I've won a little last time I've played here, most of the players, except for V2 have played with me before. Just over 900$ looks down at JJ. calls in SB.

Villain 4 - Old Man Coffee Is a weak-tight old gentleman I know well from playing1/2$, playing for time, not for money, I'm a bit surprised to find him at a bigger game sitting at a >3k stack. folds the BB

Lady calls. Unknown calls.

Pot [112$]
Flop: 589

Hero [900$] is first to act 4 handed and ..?
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:55 PM   #8
QuadJ
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

Multiple villains who are likely to call a raise and are all deep enough to pay if we hit? A button raise that may not be a tight range but probably isn't a steal either? Set mining with JJ preflop is fine. I would also raise here some of the time, but I'm more likely to do that against a button who will squeeze fairly light or a maniac who will call with ATC.

The call was set mining, on a moderately wet board that didn't help Hero, I'm mostly checking and giving up to a bet. We might be ahead of a c-bet with air, but mostly we are not going to be way ahead and sometimes Hero is crushed. Sometimes I would call a flop c-bet and see what villain does on turn.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:35 PM   #9
NicholasK
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

I check call (a reasonable bet). It's a wet board and I think a bet here just bloats the pot with a marginal hand. You don't want to be in the position for playing stacks with just a pair.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:36 PM   #10
NuklearWinter
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

I'd rather 3bet this pre given the situation. It will make your hand a lot easier to play. I'd go $65-75 preflop. BTN can be doing this light/wide. By flatting you make your hand really tough to play in a multi-way situation and you can often fold the best hand or be put in tough spots. I'd be happy winning it preflop or on the flop vs 1 or 2 players.

As played you put yourself in an awkward and difficult to play spot. Check call is ok but it makes your hand look like a draw. There's a million bad turn cards for our hand which could just be burning money if we have to fold on the turn.

So I prefer checking and seeing what the action is and then potentially check raising for value depending on action, and folding to any further aggression. C/R can get opponents off hands with decent equity vs us (JT, 78, 56, QT, etc) and also force anyone with a set/straight to reraise allowing us to easily get away from the hand. Otherwise you could just check/fold if BTN puts out a sizeable bet ($80-100) since by flatting pre you are basically set mining.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:45 PM   #11
Lapidator
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

I'm pretty evenly split between b/f $65 and c/c most bets. I'm leaning towards b/f because a J is not a great card if the betting gets too big.

If I bet and we see a turn, I'm leading most turns too.

If I c/c, I'm going to c/c most turns too.
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Old 06-07-2013, 05:48 PM   #12
Avaritia
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapidator View Post
I'm pretty evenly split between b/f $65 and c/c most bets. I'm leaning towards b/f because a J is not a great card if the betting gets too big.

If I bet and we see a turn, I'm leading most turns too.

If I c/c, I'm going to c/c most turns too.
Yep.

I sometimes do a wonky c/c/lead in these spots as well. But that's dependent on a lot of things.
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:03 PM   #13
Stacking Chips
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Love to set mine here oop and no solid reads..
This board is pretty wet.

Is there any equity in a blocking bet here?
Bet fold if need be
Blocker of about 40-55$
And reevaluate
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:27 AM   #14
MrSpew
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

pre is whatever really

as played, just lead out.
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Old 06-08-2013, 04:39 AM   #15
elcebro
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

With the competent and aggresive Villain OTB Hero decides not to donk bet, because Hero doesn't donk bet often generaly and is unsure what will he be repping with this bet.


Lady of unidentifiable age, goodlooking, regular, loose preflop, very straightforward postflop. As I pick up from the table talk, she's been hot tonight, killing the table. She sits with stacks of chips aranged neatly in front of her, two of them are blacks. Limps in UTG.

Unknown Is a huge black male in his late 30s', smoking hookah, talking a lot and he have recently rebought for 1k. First impression - very loose and probably quite bad. Limps in CO.

The Old Man Is pretty aggresive and competent old-timer some would recognise from the previous hands I've posted. He has just over 1k. Raises to 27$ from BU.

Hero Is early 20s white boy, I've won a little last time I've played here, most of the players, except for V2 have played with me before. Just over 900$ looks down at JJ. calls in SB.
Lady calls. Unknown calls.

Pot [112$]
Flop: 589

Hero checks. Lady checks. Unknown checks. Old Man ponders for a while and checks.

Poy [112$]
Turn: 589T


Hero is first to act and ..?
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:21 AM   #16
QuadJ
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

Looks like nobody liked that moderately wet flop and the turn helped you. I like a bet of $50 here. You want to get spade draws and other random over cards that can complicate your life on the river to fold. TX and under pairs probably call at least one bet after the flop checks around.

River play depends on callers and what hits. If the river is a brick I'm mostly betting again for value because I'm not too worried about better hands, they bet or raise before river somewhere. If it isn't a brick the situation is more complex, and depends on what hits and who is in hand.
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Old 06-08-2013, 10:15 AM   #17
Hailey
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Re: Old Man strikes again at 2/4$

I agree. Bet turn for value maybe 50-70% pot. Any Ten, spade draws and even weaker pairs like 89 or 78 will call now too, as these hands have spiked a straight draw.
If river bricks than i would go for value too.
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