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Old 08-07-2010, 01:29 AM   #201
AcePlayerDeluxe
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by MK7749 View Post
man i think guys who wear glasses and hoodies and ipods at 1/2 is lame, if i saw soemone whip this out i think i would be trying to play almost every pot with him. My read would be bad by the book player.
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In my experience, lots of people with that image (especially if they are listening to iPod) will play like a TAGfish - see http://www.pokerlistings.com/strateg...ure-a-tag-fish

These are usually gonna be guys who have read enough about poker to know pre-flop hand selection (aka "tight is right" stuff) but their aggression will suffer post-flop - that is they will only be aggro when they hit, hence still playing too fit/fold level 1 poker. I think its also safe to say that these players are pretty inexperienced at playing deep.
Im the guy with the big headphones, backwards hat and a hoodie when its cold. No good eh? Lol. Seriously tho I am.
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:13 AM   #202
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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... After calling a raise from a lagtard oop tonight I just had a feeling I was going to hit broadway. It came on the turn. Instinct. If I'd gone with logic I'd have folded my KTo...
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lol
lol ginaments
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Old 08-07-2010, 01:15 PM   #203
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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I use 'Poker Income' For the iphone, its fairly basic but it will track your hourly, daily winrates and will show your most profitable days/stakes/locations to play aswell. I would recommend it
just found this thread reading the first page.

poker income now on sale $9.99

poker journal 12.99
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:04 PM   #204
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I met a guy at the 2/5 table last night who claimed that his hourly rate playing live on 2/3 tables with a min buy in of 50 and max buy in of $200 was $55 per hour.

He said that this was playing 50 hours a week over 6 months. The hourly time charge is $5 per hour and rake 10% capped at $5.

It is my understanding that only the few very skilled players could make such an hourly rate playing $2/5 500NL live.

Is this BS or actually achievable?
He then went on to say he did run hot and the players are bad. The poker room is the Crown in Melbourne.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:21 PM   #205
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I have seen good players run hot for 18 months+.

It ain't something you set out to do unless you are a blooming idiot, it just happens. And its not sustainable.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:48 PM   #206
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Im the guy with the big headphones, backwards hat and a hoodie when its cold. No good eh? Lol. Seriously tho I am.
dressing for cold is one thing, listening to music is anotehr. wearing sunglasses at night indoors is completely something else.
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:44 PM   #207
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Re: Taking the Plunge, Playing for a living

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6 months+ sample size playing atleast 20 hours a week before you play full time w/o a real paycheck.. you will hit road bumps and times were you just cannot win whether you are good or not. Prepare to wake up and not have a schedule that you have to actually follow.. getting out of bed to go play poker will be harder than you think, especially when running bad. Prepare to have 6 months of living reserves, plus bankroll, plus good work ethic, plus 6 months of all winning months that allow you to cover all your bills and be able to save. I say all winning months because even with downswings you shouldnt ever have a "live" losing month if you are ready to "go pro"
Never have a losing month? What are you basing this on? I'm curious, because even pros of the caliber of Barry Greenstein and Doyle Brunson write about having losing months. Heck, Doyle wrote not that long ago that he almost had a losing year!

If top pros have losing months - and they all seem to - then why shouldn't the rest of us?

Lee
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:56 PM   #208
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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The fact that you make money, over an extended period of time, or over a short period of time, or the fact that others do not make money, is irrelevant.

Gambling is the wagering of money or something of material value on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning additional money and/or material goods. Typically, the outcome of the wager is evident within a short period.

There is a reason that Poker is classified as gambling. Because it is. Unless you are using marked cards or something, you are wagering on an uncertain outcome. The fact that you are paid more on favorable outcomes, and lose less on unfavorable outcomes (ie: the odds are in your favor), doesn't mean it is still not gambling. Or that fact that others are not so good at determining these favorable wagers, doesn't mean you aren't gambling. They are just gambling more poorly than you.

A casino has every game with the odds stacked in their favor. In even the realitively short run, not one single table or game in the casino ever loses money ... But that casino is GAMBLING, they are not baking bread, or picking flowers.

I suggest you find some fool in BBV or something to stalk in the future.
Huh? When is the casino actually gambling? Other than in the very short term - and maybe not even then?

As for poker, it is - if played correctly - like any other business. Sure, there is some gamble involved. There is in all business endeavors. But if one gets their money in smart, and has enough of a bankroll to handle the variance, then that person wins long term.

I forget the source, but I love the quote:

"The gambling known as business frowns upon the business known as gambling."

Lee
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Old 08-17-2010, 10:59 PM   #209
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Never have a losing month? I am down $3.5k over 100 hours of play because of my inability to hit draws, hit sets, and having my one-pair hands consistently getting cracked even though I "priced out" implied odds drawers.

All good players have losing months, and perhaps even longer. What sets pros apart is their ability to limit the losses and combat tilt.
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:07 AM   #210
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Live downswings are different from online downswings though. Online its easy to have downswings for a long period of time because a.) the game is way more aggro so the money goes in lighter thus increasing variance and b.) the general caliber of the bad players is higher so that your edge is reduced compared to live.

While live the pace of the coolers and set-ups and stretches of card-deadness are delayed and take more time to get through, there's so many more opportunities to steal and so many more places where you can make huge laydowns that would be simply criminal to do online that, if you put in enough volume and adequately crush the game, it's pretty hard to have a significantly large losing month.

As for me personally I've had a few breakeven months, but rarely have lost more than something like two or three BI's total in a single month. During those times I lost just about every big pot I played yet I stole enough and made enough +EV folds that I managed to keep the losses at bay until my rung00t returned.
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:30 AM   #211
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I agree with the ability to steal, although I tend to do it 95% of the time simply be being aggressive with semi-bluffs, c-bets, and smart double-barrels, all of which are highly +EV. The river has been where I have gotten in trouble this month.

It is interesting:

--Live, people will play fit-or-fold on the flop and call down the river if they are glued to a hand, even if its relative strength is kind of "meh". I sometimes miss c-betting thinking that the villain will float me on a flop that I think misses my perceived range, but this is usually a pipe dream, even with the "good" 2/5 players.

--Online, good players will float the flop by default but will be very capable of falling prey to a logical river bluff situation.

It is the biggest adjustment I have been making from online to live, and I am still making it as we speak.

Last edited by IWearSportsJerseys; 08-18-2010 at 12:48 AM.
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Old 08-18-2010, 02:30 PM   #212
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Live downswings are different from online downswings though. Online its easy to have downswings for a long period of time because a.) the game is way more aggro so the money goes in lighter thus increasing variance and b.) the general caliber of the bad players is higher so that your edge is reduced compared to live.

While live the pace of the coolers and set-ups and stretches of card-deadness are delayed and take more time to get through, there's so many more opportunities to steal and so many more places where you can make huge laydowns that would be simply criminal to do online that, if you put in enough volume and adequately crush the game, it's pretty hard to have a significantly large losing month.

As for me personally I've had a few breakeven months, but rarely have lost more than something like two or three BI's total in a single month. During those times I lost just about every big pot I played yet I stole enough and made enough +EV folds that I managed to keep the losses at bay until my rung00t returned.
Yeah, this is my view/experince also. Live poker: I really don't believe in "running bad/variance" if playing a decent amount of time. By far the #1 reason for losses by me are my poor play, not even close. My month to month winrates are actually really consistent even playing only ~50-60 hrs/month
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Old 08-20-2010, 09:30 AM   #213
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Never have a losing month? I am down $3.5k over 100 hours of play because of my inability to hit draws, hit sets, and having my one-pair hands consistently getting cracked even though I "priced out" implied odds drawers.

All good players have losing months, and perhaps even longer. What sets pros apart is their ability to limit the losses and combat tilt.
dusty schmidt claims never to have had a losing month. but the fact that we have to rack or brains to find one tells us something. also, given how many there are, onE of them has to run good enough not to have a losing month...
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Old 08-21-2010, 02:11 AM   #214
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

But, Dusty has also recently written as to how he is? Was? facing his first losing month. Don't know if he actually ended up booking one (a losing month) or not.

He has also written that he has had vicious downswings that didn't leave him with a losing month only by virtue of happening over a period of time that included 2 months. In other words, he had 2 months of lessened earnings instead of one month with a loss. A situation that is statistically bound to almost certainly mean that at some point he does indeed have a losing month.

Lastly, let's keep in mind that he plays a HUGE number of hands per month - which gives the statistical variance a lot of opportunity to even out.

Lee
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:48 PM   #215
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Poker Journal 2!!

As promised here are some screenshots of the new Poker Journal.

It is a free update and should be out anytime. It has been submitted to apple, its all on them now. Enjoy!



Custom Filters got better!







Slight Brag (3rd name in)












This thing went even further. I liked the added standard deviation. I never knew what mine was but when I first seen it I was like OMG Tarzan!! I have watched it drop big time since then and it has been fun. I like the trip report tab. Customize the dates you went to Vegas and it will pull all the games from those dates and show you how you did. Custom filters have been expanded, but I haven't put a crap load of time into that. I was mainly just checking to see what was working and what wasn't. Its good stuff though!
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:13 PM   #216
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

what about the smart people that use android?
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:12 AM   #217
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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what about the smart people that use android?
Use my app, poker log.
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Old 08-28-2010, 04:25 AM   #218
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I hop m'y answer about standard déviation wont come too late (did not read the whole thread)

In excel the function is stdev
Basically standard deviation is a measure of how far fron average (dispesed) your data usually are

Ie 10 6 8 and 80 -72 8 have same average but first one has small stddev and second one large

I am on Holliday so quoting from memory of distant math course

Your result have 50% chance to be between average - stdev and average + stdev

And 90% chance in avg -2 stdev and avg +2 stdev

Hope it helps
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:46 AM   #219
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

In poker your SD is based on your hourly rate and you play for different amounts of time each session, so it isn't as straight forward as stdev in excel, but more or less that's it.
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Old 08-29-2010, 11:50 AM   #220
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

can anyone estimate the winrate for a live 3/6 omaha hi/lo with a kill?
same for 5/10 if possible, as this group of players rotate the stakes, they are pretty weak I hear.

I play a lot of PLO online but I havn't learned oh8 yet, wondering if its even
worth it.

rake is $3 on flop capped at 4$
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Old 08-29-2010, 02:35 PM   #221
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Have a question regarding bankroll.

Currently my bankroll is ~$1000 which is basically a result of my winnings at $1/2 and I've been buying in for $100 per game i.e. playing small stack. I've seen a lot on this forum advocating playing with a larger stack (so I can play some 'proper poker') but with my current bank roll is this too much of a stretch?
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Old 08-29-2010, 03:18 PM   #222
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Have a question regarding bankroll.

Currently my bankroll is ~$1000 which is basically a result of my winnings at $1/2 and I've been buying in for $100 per game i.e. playing small stack. I've seen a lot on this forum advocating playing with a larger stack (so I can play some 'proper poker') but with my current bank roll is this too much of a stretch?
You are underrolled for 1/2, no doubt about it.
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Old 08-29-2010, 08:43 PM   #223
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

^^ APD is this app free, looks sweet?
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Old 08-29-2010, 10:25 PM   #224
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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^^ APD is this app free, looks sweet?
No its 12.99 I believe. So worth the money though!
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:03 PM   #225
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by sushiparlour View Post
Have a question regarding bankroll.

Currently my bankroll is ~$1000 which is basically a result of my winnings at $1/2 and I've been buying in for $100 per game i.e. playing small stack. I've seen a lot on this forum advocating playing with a larger stack (so I can play some 'proper poker') but with my current bank roll is this too much of a stretch?
Keep buying in for the $100 for now, i'm in the same boat as you, my roll was $500, i bought in for $100 on saturday and made $540 profit, sunday bought in for $100, took a stab with my 35 suited and called all in for my last $50 to make a $300 pot with bottom pair and runner runnered a flush... too bad it paired the board and the set of jacks won. So rebought for another $100 and left the table with $340 profit for the day. Now my bankroll is $1400 and I will continue to buy in for $100 until it gets to about $3000, then I will buy in for $200 until it gets to $6000, then I will buy in for the max of $300.

Yes you do give up on some profit when you could have doubled up, but also you get to take some cheap chances at tripling up your small stack that you would not take if you did buy in for the max. Also you can leave after you lose $200 and say its not your day, but winning sessions are usually going to be much more than your $200 loss days.

I've heard don't try to chase your losses if you can't make what your stuck for, so if your casino lets you buy in for $300, and u lose that $300, you buy in for $300 more, if you lose that your not going to make it back realistically. But if you buy in short for $100, and again, you can still buy in for what you are stuck for. So this would be an argument in favor of short stacking. Anyway Good luck!!
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