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Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Winrates, bankrolls, and finances
View Poll Results: What is your Win Rate in terms of BB per Housr
Less than 0 (losing)
5 6.41%
0-2.5
0 0%
2.5-5
6 7.69%
5-7.5
8 10.26%
7.5-10
15 19.23%
10+
26 33.33%
Not enough sample size/I don't know
18 23.08%

07-20-2018 , 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Awesome giraffe Gator!

Steaks? I'm assuming all 2/5?

Any thoughts on Mike's comment / lol lifetime sample sizes / what you think is going on / etc.?

GthanksforpostingG




Yeah, pretty insane! My guess is if he started off poker on that 1000 hours stretch he likely wouldn't even be playing? Incredible!

Gpokerissick,imoG
Well, the sample contains everything from 3/6 limit to 5/10/20 plo.
2800hrs of PLO
1200hrs NLH

Yes most hrs played at the $5 blind level

Never tried LSD so cant comment on if that would have helped or hurt results.

What I can tell you from my experience of these hours as well as several million online hands is that I'm aware plo haz a much higher expected variance but that also the graph undoubtedly represents an outlier.

The experience playing thru said outlier became basically hilarity with every conceivable scenario of ubsirtity of events aligned in an unending downward spiral, only separated by multiple long sessions of unbelievable card deadedness, that no style adjustment or switch of games could hope to derail.

Now since back on the uptrend it seems like a bad dream. I'm sure I have some level of psd as I now play more NLH then during the chaos but I still keep PLO in the rotation each week and it's on the upswing as well.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-20-2018 , 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
You really have to stop thinking about things in these completely lol sample size terms (at least with regards to how much you are simply winning / losing), imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG
yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face
want to highlight this aspect of your game a little here (not picking on you just an observation). The fact that you remember the exact days of the week and swings within a session from events a year ago is an indication that you are really sweating these shots. This is bad news. When you are sweating it that much it is going to be really really tough to play your best poker. This is a leak that needs plugging.
And yep. That was my first time ever play 2/5 though so that wild swingy weekend is burned into my memory forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorXP
Well, the sample contains everything from 3/6 limit to 5/10/20 plo.
2800hrs of PLO
1200hrs NLH

Yes most hrs played at the $5 blind level

Never tried LSD so cant comment on if that would have helped or hurt results.

What I can tell you from my experience of these hours as well as several million online hands is that I'm aware plo haz a much higher expected variance but that also the graph undoubtedly represents an outlier.

The experience playing thru said outlier became basically hilarity with every conceivable scenario of ubsirtity of events aligned in an unending downward spiral, only separated by multiple long sessions of unbelievable card deadedness, that no style adjustment or switch of games could hope to derail.

Now since back on the uptrend it seems like a bad dream. I'm sure I have some level of psd as I now play more NLH then during the chaos but I still keep PLO in the rotation each week and it's on the upswing as well.
That's absolutely gross. I have a friend who had a similar break even stretch too. This game is really sick sometimes. Can't imagine how you keep playing your A game everyday during such a stretch.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-20-2018 , 04:03 PM
Does including PLO and NL (and even mixing up steaks) in the same giraffe almost make the giraffe somewhat meaningless tho? (other than of course the impressive end result)

Gapplesandbananas,imoG
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-20-2018 , 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Does including PLO and NL (and even mixing up steaks) in the same giraffe almost make the giraffe somewhat meaningless tho? (other than of course the impressive end result)

Gapplesandbananas,imoG
I would say, Yes it does.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-20-2018 , 05:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Does including PLO and NL (and even mixing up steaks) in the same giraffe almost make the giraffe somewhat meaningless tho? (other than of course the impressive end result)

Gapplesandbananas,imoG
Seemed pretty meaningful when I missing 20k from my roll
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-20-2018 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Does including PLO and NL (and even mixing up steaks) in the same giraffe almost make the giraffe somewhat meaningless tho? (other than of course the impressive end result)

Gapplesandbananas,imoG
If your graph is in absolute $ then yeah of course.

If it's represented in bb, I would say it still has some meaning.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-20-2018 , 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
They are passive. I wouldn't call them soft. My win rate is higher in just about any other room. Every time I go play in a different nearby room I hear people saying things like "You cant play the Isle. Its like a graveyard. No action at all."

Nobody is handing out stacks like candy. The avg pot size in my games is probably 1/3 of avg pot for some of you guys. It takes a miracle to get your stack in most of the time.
Played 2/5 at the Isle a few days ago and, yeah, just as passive as always. I’d rather play 1/2 at Hialeah than 2/5 at the Isle.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-20-2018 , 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Does including PLO and NL (and even mixing up steaks) in the same giraffe almost make the giraffe somewhat meaningless tho? (other than of course the impressive end result)

Gapplesandbananas,imoG
I would argue that hours played and $$ won are the only meaningful criteria.

all the rest is garnish, used to brag or justify
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 03:00 PM
How often on average would you expect a crushing live 2/5 reg to have a losing month? Assume 10bb/hr winner over long sample and puts in 125-175 hrs per month.

Asking because I have a reg friend that says he's never had a losing month and is willing to bet me he *never" will.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havax
How often on average would you expect a crushing live 2/5 reg to have a losing month? Assume 10bb/hr winner over long sample and puts in 125-175 hrs per month.

Asking because I have a reg friend that says he's never had a losing month and is willing to bet me he *never" will.
Probably anually.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 03:09 PM
Lol this question got me curious so I filtered my 2/5 results and noticed the only month that I had a negative hourly was October.

Did some more digging and realized that I've NEVER had a winning October at 2/5 since 2013. (I took the entire month off in 2017). Pretty eerie.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 03:10 PM
Also, this sounds like someone who would fabricate or lie to himself about results. You know there are people that have a losing session but got AA cracked AIPF and just delete the entire session.

Would not bet with this person.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 04:23 PM
I know plenty of live regs that were/are awful and have been crushing for years. One of them just recently had the luckbox fall out of his ass after about 10 years and hearing him ***** and whine about how bad he runs is comical. Especially since he isn't even running bad he just isn't running 4 standard deviations above the mean well anymore.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havax
How often on average would you expect a crushing live 2/5 reg to have a losing month? Assume 10bb/hr winner over long sample and puts in 125-175 hrs per month.

Asking because I have a reg friend that says he's never had a losing month and is willing to bet me he *never" will.
Ive had 2 losing months out of 32 months that Ive been playing close to full time. Neither of them was a loss of more than $700.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
They are passive. I wouldn't call them soft. My win rate is higher in just about any other room. Every time I go play in a different nearby room I hear people saying things like "You cant play the Isle. Its like a graveyard. No action at all."

Nobody is handing out stacks like candy. The avg pot size in my games is probably 1/3 of avg pot for some of you guys. It takes a miracle to get your stack in most of the time.
How do you make 10bbs an hour in a game that nitty? In my experience, 10 bbs an hour over the long term can only happen at tables with multiple donks that stack off light and just generally play loose and splashy.

What spots are you consistently finding where you can crush nits that hard without becoming the spewy aggrotard yourself?
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 07:34 PM
I averaged about 1 losing month per year. I have had years with zero. Like mike starr my losing months have been very small
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
How do you make 10bbs an hour in a game that nitty? In my experience, 10 bbs an hour over the long term can only happen at tables with multiple donks that stack off light and just generally play loose and splashy.

What spots are you consistently finding where you can crush nits that hard without becoming the spewy aggrotard yourself?
Stealing tons of dead limp money preflop is my main source of nit revenue.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havax
How often on average would you expect a crushing live 2/5 reg to have a losing month? Assume 10bb/hr winner over long sample and puts in 125-175 hrs per month.

Asking because I have a reg friend that says he's never had a losing month and is willing to bet me he *never" will.
Give me a standard deviation in BB/hr and I can calculate the probability of not having a losing period of length whatever.

Without knowing the SD or length of time under examination I'll just say the probability of a losing month is significantly nonzero. And if we project he plays another 20 years it's probably close to 1.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 11:02 PM
Any pro who hasn't had a losing month or thinks it's impossible to lose over a 160 hour period doesn't know what they're talking about.

Edit: live poker this is...
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 11:22 PM
Def not impossible, but for somebody crushing 1/2 or 2/5, its unlikely to have many losing months.

It's not like high stakes where there's just tons of unavoidable coolers/variance in spots where "I have to get it in". There's so many more spots where we can bluff at very high frequencies, overfold because they have no bluffing range, vbet much thinner bcuz they dont x/r bluff... etc,

There's always going to be variance, so losing months are not outside of the realm of possibility, but low stakes it is much easier to sustain higher winrates with considerably less variance via exploitation
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 11:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Stealing tons of dead limp money preflop is my main source of nit revenue.
Gotchya. Still, there's got to be some whales sitting in the game right? If the whole table plays weak tight and we never stack anyone its got to put a cap on our win rate to maybe 5bbs per hour. Especially if the avg preflop raise size is only $15. The pots are just too small.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-22-2018 , 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YGOchamp
Def not impossible, but for somebody crushing 1/2 or 2/5, its unlikely to have many losing months.

It's not like high stakes where there's just tons of unavoidable coolers/variance in spots where "I have to get it in". There's so many more spots where we can bluff at very high frequencies, overfold because they have no bluffing range, vbet much thinner bcuz they dont x/r bluff... etc,

There's always going to be variance, so losing months are not outside of the realm of possibility, but low stakes it is much easier to sustain higher winrates with considerably less variance via exploitation
Still the unavoidable fact remains that 160 hours @ 30hph is like s 5k hand sample. Doesn't matter how good you are, if you get set over set a few times, it's easy enough to have a losing month.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-23-2018 , 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meale
Still the unavoidable fact remains that 160 hours @ 30hph is like s 5k hand sample. Doesn't matter how good you are, if you get set over set a few times, it's easy enough to have a losing month.
?

my comment clearly agreed with this statement already.

My point was to illustrate that yes, it can and will happen, but if you're having 2-3/year then its v likely on you and not purely variance.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-23-2018 , 12:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YGOchamp
?

my comment clearly agreed with this statement already.

My point was to illustrate that yes, it can and will happen, but if you're having 2-3/year then its v likely on you and not purely variance.
Yeah I was kind of more talking to the point someone made earlier about them saying they'd never had a losing month or that they think they never will. People like this simply don't understand variance.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
07-23-2018 , 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodybuilder32
Gotchya. Still, there's got to be some whales sitting in the game right? If the whole table plays weak tight and we never stack anyone its got to put a cap on our win rate to maybe 5bbs per hour. Especially if the avg preflop raise size is only $15. The pots are just too small.
During the weekday daytime games in the summer, there are very few whales, if any at all at the Isle.

A couple good regs that Ive talked to all agree that its basically impossible to break 6bb/hr in those games. 5BB/hr is crushing in those games.

Evenings and weekends are different. The snowbird season from about Thanksgiving to about mid March brings a good number of bad older recs and whales and win rates are much higher.

My win rate is 56% higher in snowbird season than regular season. A guy with no commitments could travel around to different areas by season and get the hell out of S. Florida during the summer and make a killing. Also, if you wanted to cherry pick your hours and play at only the most opportune times, you could really do well here.

Personally, I just play when I feel like it knowing that I'm sacrificing win rate, although during the summer I do adjust my schedule a bit and play a couple other rooms once or twice a week.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote

      
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