I've hit 3 HH in past...1300ish hours. All on nights where it paid like 200 to 300 bucks. On the good HH promo nights you have to make a high straight flush here to hold up. The 2/4 limit tables get way more than their share of high hands because they typically have nearly everyone seeing every flop and anyone with a potential HH stays to the river. Feel like they should have different standards.

Anyway...for me it makes almost no difference whether I include HH wins or not.

I think people should include them if they want but it would be a good idea to track all promo wins separately to see how much it affects your winrate.

Including comps seems weird though as that's not cash and at many places there is no good way to convert comps to cash.

Include comps if you want to calculate your winnings/hour: most useful for estimating annual/monthly income.

Dont include anything outside post you win: most useful for attempting to determine win rate as a comparable number vs others and generally estimate skill over a decent sample.

FYP

I include everything to figure out yearly what I make
as a 4 night new years eve stay + nye party in vegas is a 2k comp
cash back adds up
HH add up

BUT tracking hands and BB/hr helps to find problems and adjust your game
this I think is the debate issue.

the deeper issue is do you adjust your game for HH promo periods
as you get a table full of HH hunters all with stacks less than 30BB

Alright guys. Things are not going so well. This is my graph since May 2017.



Currently going through the most brutal break even stretch of my life. I've won over $20k but I can't win $1500 in over 250 hours to get back to lifetime peak. Just about every session for the last month and a half I get stuck hundreds right off the bat and go card dead for hours or I go on a heater at the start and end the session break even. For those who have been innocent and fortunate enough to not have gone through this (like my naive self back in early June who thought I was a crusher), it's absolutely sick and makes poker so much more of a grind.

Obviously the only solution is to keep playing and keep studying. My 5/10 friend says to play shorter sessions when in a bad mindset. So instead of playing a long session six days a week, I've been breaking my sessions up into two shorter day sessions, a gym/dinner/chill break in between and a short night session.

What other adjustments should I make? I don't think changing my play style is really gonna be the best solution. I mean things like locking up wins to gain back confidence. I shouldn't care about results, but what I really want more than anything right now is just a few back to back $300+ days so I can remember what a winning streak feels like. The most annoying thing is this graph is almost 90% 1/2 and 1/3, and such a long break even stretch at the easiest stakes is certainly a blow to my confidence as a poker player.

When you in these steaks 100% lock up wins...I'm aware it all one big session but when wins become incredibly hard to put together you do what ever it takes to lock them in.
If they aren't going to give them to you...you take them.

If I've read the giraffe right, it's like a 160 hour streak of ~breakeven poker?

It will be nothing but a blip on your lifetime giraffe. I wouldn't worry too much about it and more concentrate on whether you think there were hands you thought you played badly (especially the big ones) and the reasons for that (perhaps post some for opinions).

Poker is full of these little ups and downs. I've lost my 3 last sessions. Before that, I had only lost 3 sessions in my previous 18. That's poker. I'm less concerned about the results that I am about what I would consider mistakes (I made a massive one in my last session that still irks me).

GcluelessresultsnoobG

@Lord – I went through a similar 203 hour stretch that hopefully ended this month. Lost 1+bbs/hr, nothing large but uncomfortably prolonged. For the first time, I did not look forward to playing.

I did shorten my sessions, though I tried not to book a W if up early with favorable table conditions. Never did hit those double-ups, nonetheless. You may also want to limit loss by decreasing how many BIs you bring.

Also, try to be totally objective in analyzing hands that cost you after being up early in the session. I know you post quite a few hands, sharing them will get you solid feedback.

One more thing if your schedule permits, grab a Friday night/weekend session. More recs, more beer, more … Will help from a confidence perspective.

Thank you for posting this! Glad to know im not the only one haha same exact boat as u!

LRR - Poker always seems to have an ebb and flow to it. When I am on a long breakeven or down swing the first thing I do is tighten up my game a bit - I refocus on fundamentals (position, fat value, etc). As I feel like I am getting my mojo back I will re open up my game. In llsnl most of our $$$ simply comes from that (fundamentally strong poker)...and sometimes especially when we are running very hot we can lose sight of that and get a little too out of line

I think shortening sessions for no reason is a mistake. I would go in with the attitude of playing a normal length session. BUT if I see myself counting my stack and making computations about how much i am up/ or am sweating it then I would know that I am off my game and would lock it up so that I can book that elusive win. My point is when you are running bad it is really really important to constantly check in with yourself in order to make sure that your mental game is in fact strong and you are playing A poker.

nice giraffe, and it will turn around even though when you are in it it feels like it never will

Thank you so much for this! Always good to read something like this when going thru break even stretches

my poker 'career' is basically long stretches of trying to grind out a small win rate/keep my head above water in run flat/run bad times punctuated with glorious 50-100 hour stretches of insane run good and disproportionate profits.

as a rec player it's going to be really hard for you ever to know what your true win rate is, so while it's counter a lot of the nittery itt (and I guess the whole focus of this thread) my advice is to worry less about your graph and a particular bb/hr and more about playing as well as you can and knowing that you're pursuing a profitable hobby

^ good poast

I wouldn’t get too hung up on 250 hour break even that’s not very long at all.

For 171 hours of 2/5 from 4/14 - 6/1, I lost $123. It felt like I would never win another big pot. I was card dead for hours on end and the cards would just not let me win. The days were long, boring and mind numbing. I won 54% of my sessions and no big days at all.

Then on June 2nd it was like someone flipped a switch. The next 174 hours from then until today I won $9355 and everything was pretty much back to normal. I won 69% of my sessions which is exactly my long term avg. It was like I was in an alternate universe for 6 weeks and then suddenly like it never happened.

Poker is crazy.

The boogie man is real bro

About $43/hr for 3250 hours and then about -$12/hr for 1000 hours? WTF???????

Were you on LSD for 1000 hours or something?

I average around 300 hours of cash per year. My win rate last year for cash was in the early 20s iirc after being high 30s and early 40s the two years before.

but i know i was a better player last year, it's just the way it went.

the above, in conjunction with an almost total change in player pool, plus the change in game format that my room seems to do each year - I've gone 5/5 700 to 2/5 500 to 2/5 -10 1000 in the past three years - led to me stopping calculating a lifetime graph.

imo those things are used too often as a crutch or for ego purposes. I run an annual p&l at each level and overall (this year I've played everything from 1/1 to 5/10/20) as well as for mtts but my focus is as zen as possible about playing every hand as well as I can and getting pleasure and stimulation from playing and studying the game

this is f**king sick, thank you for sharing

^ very nice share.

I’ve got an 1150 hour break even myself when I eventually put up a lifetime chart again, though there’s a caveat to that one.

@Mike - **** happens. I get that you play in very soft passive games where you can’t fathom how those stretches are possible, but rest assured they are.

They are passive. I wouldn't call them soft. My win rate is higher in just about any other room. Every time I go play in a different nearby room I hear people saying things like "You cant play the Isle. Its like a graveyard. No action at all."

Nobody is handing out stacks like candy. The avg pot size in my games is probably 1/3 of avg pot for some of you guys. It takes a miracle to get your stack in most of the time.

Thank you for posting this!! I've had two major upswings followed by keeping my head above water lol so nice to know you go thru it as well!

Thanks for the encouragement and sharing guys. And yeah poker really is a different experience when you put in so many hours trying to get good and don't really get much out of it. I remember last year shot taking 2/5 in Vegas on a weekend at the end of June. Was up over 1k at one point Friday but ended break even, lost 900 Saturday, lost 600 Sunday. Shrugged it off like it was nothing, went back to 1/3 for a few days and was back at 2/5 the next weekend. Did pretty well - maybe around $35-40/hr for the next few weeks. I remember sitting in 1/2 and 1/3 games wasted last summer cause I felt like they were "below" my normal game.

Unfortunately school ate my bankroll so I'm no longer rolled for 2/5. When I just got to Vegas this summer I went on a mini downswing that was almost as severe as my current one but I quickly got out of it and ran up like 4k in a week. Then I went on my current downswing which at it's worst point was about 1800 which isn't that bad. What's bad is that I'm still slowly clawing my way out, hopefully not getting smacked back down again by consecutive big losing sessions.

It really is mentally tough. Everyone has a threshold where after they're stuck more than that amount they start to tilt. I'd be lying if I said my threshold hasn't been low and easily exceeded in recent weeks. I think part of my frustration is the fact that last summer I grinded my way up to 2/5 and made many thousands while this summer I've barely made anything after over 300 hours at the tables during the WSOP when the games are supposed to be softest, combined with the fact that the summer will be over soon. I think I have trouble accepting the fact that it's basically impossible to come close to last year's results and also that I'd have to fly home in a few weeks having lost money after expenses. So basically an ego thing. But like my friend keeps telling me. It could be way worse. I could be down money. And I feel like 1/2 and 1/3 are always gonna be soft in Vegas even during the post WSOP lull. Probably just 2/5 and 5/10 games that are gonna be considerably worse. There is hope.

You really have to stop thinking about things in these completely lol sample size terms (at least with regards to how much you are simply winning / losing), imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Awesome giraffe Gator!

Steaks? I'm assuming all 2/5?

Any thoughts on Mike's comment / lol lifetime sample sizes / what you think is going on / etc.?

GthanksforpostingG


Yeah, pretty insane! My guess is if he started off poker on that 1000 hours stretch he likely wouldn't even be playing? Incredible!

Gpokerissick,imoG

want to highlight this aspect of your game a little here (not picking on you just an observation). The fact that you remember the exact days of the week and swings within a session from events a year ago is an indication that you are really sweating these shots. This is bad news. When you are sweating it that much it is going to be really really tough to play your best poker. This is a leak that needs plugging.