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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 07-22-2010, 03:18 PM   #176
masaraksh
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Re: 1/2 NL - Profit question

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregp18 View Post

The past week ive been making about 50-70 bucks for 4 hours of playing.

Seriously, that sample size means absolutely nothing. Last night I was stuck 140 after less than an hour, then near end of 7hr session ended up 200 winner. Unless you have >200hrs sample size it really means close to nothing in live poker.

As for profit, just record all the data profit/loss, hours of play, etc after each session and while you're playing focus on making the best decisions possible.


EDIT:
Always buy in for max. Fish can't pot control/ play deep. Skill matters more when deeper + you have more implied odds.
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Old 07-22-2010, 04:25 PM   #177
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Re: 1/2 NL - Profit question

it depends.

IF...
you are really good player

you may win up to 7 - 9 BB/hour. Or 14 to 18 dollars/hour.

So 4 hours would be ~ 56 to 72 per session on average.

BUT, you may have to play thousands of hours to actually realize this average, and most players far overweight their own skill level horrendously.
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Old 07-22-2010, 04:27 PM   #178
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Re: 1/2 NL - Profit question

IMO $10/hr is very high, but achievable. You will have to play 200 solid session to find out where you stand.
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Old 07-22-2010, 04:29 PM   #179
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Re: 1/2 NL - Profit question

With a large sample size $20+/hour is considered very good. I've read alot of posters who say that is close to the peak possible but I'm not so sure.
Optimum buyin amount can vary per your playing style and bankroll. If you think you have a big edge over most of the field buyin for the max
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Old 07-22-2010, 06:41 PM   #180
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Re: 1/2 NL - Profit question

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Originally Posted by crsseyed View Post
With a large sample size $20+/hour is considered very good. I've read alot of posters who say that is close to the peak possible but I'm not so sure.
Optimum buyin amount can vary per your playing style and bankroll. If you think you have a big edge over most of the field buyin for the max

10bb/hr is definitely achievable, maybe higher at 1/2. 8 to 10 is about max at average casino 2/5 games i believe with confidence. But usually players move up if winning these amounts long before the test of time.
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Old 07-22-2010, 06:45 PM   #181
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Re: 1/2 NL - Profit question

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Originally Posted by Princess Azula View Post
IMO $10/hr is very high, but achievable. You will have to play 200 solid session to find out where you stand.
Ive played only a few sessions of 1/2, but i can assure you that 5bb/hr at 1/2 casino NL full ring is basically just rising above the village idiots a few notches, and really doing nothing extraordinary.

The daily regtards at 2/5 are making 18 to 25/hour at 2/5 and they dont even know what pokerstove is.
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:08 PM   #182
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

DO NOT ALWAYS buy in for the max!!

also DO NOT listen to guys with 5 posts who make uninformed and unsupported assertions.

buy in for what you're comfortable for. buy in for what allows you and your style to take best advantage of the dynamics of the table.

there's a lot of value in being able to 3b pre/shove flops against players who have no idea what they're doing.

so many 1/2 fish will call a 3b getting horrendous odds trying to hit a small set or flop top pair with JT and then fold the flop when they miss (or call your shove on a T-high board when you haven't played a hand in an hour and are obviously on an overpair).

for more, see this post of mine from another thread.

poker is not a game of absolutes. there is no such thing as 'perfect poker' because unexploitable is almost never optimal. if you discovered how to play unexploitably and did so, you'd be leaving a ton of money on the table, because winning the most means exploiting weakness the best, which means being exploitable yourself.
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:08 PM   #183
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What's your winrate/hourly rate playing live?

I've often wondered what a good hourly rate was playing $2/5 500NL live and at any other stakes come to mention it.

What is a good and what is an excellent hourly rate and what is the minimum number of hours you need to have recorded for a true idea of how good you are?

What is your NLH hourly rate at the stakes you play
and how many hours of play does that relate to?

I will post my info in due course.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:09 AM   #184
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe View Post
you silly poker players and your maths. Just play your cards and fold when you miss... duh!!!
Well, this, obv. Sklansky goes on about forgetting what your instinct tells you. I think he doesn't really understand what instinct is (because his examples of instinct dont really talk about instinct - boom). After calling a raise from a lagtard oop tonight I just had a feeling I was going to hit broadway. It came on the turn. Instinct. If I'd gone with logic I'd have folded my KTo

I suppose what I'm saying is go with your instinct if you know and trust who you are.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:21 AM   #185
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by KurtSF View Post
Whatever mysteriously went wrong, it just as mysteriously righted itself. Graphs are working now. Odd.

Entering time and date seems a bit awkward, but I'm really looking forward to giving this program a good spin.

So?
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:24 AM   #186
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Re: 1/2 NL - Profit question

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Originally Posted by masaraksh View Post
Unless you have >200hrs sample size it really means close to nothing in live poker.
200 hours means basically nothing.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:13 PM   #187
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by DiegoArmando View Post
So?
I'm a big fan of PokerJournal now!

With a little practice and a little fine-tuning of the preferences, nothing is awkward to enter anymore. With the possible exception of start/end time, as if you scroll the wrong way for end time you can reset the start time and have to do it over. But its really starting to accumulate a lot of data now, and the filters are terrific for slicing and dicing it to tell you what you want to know, and the graphs are just fun. A friend and I have taken to flashing eachother our PJ graphs as a quick way to update on recent successes and failures. And the export to PC and Excel couldn't be easier, which is primo for archiving and tax records.

I haven't tried the competitors so I can't call it the "best". But its a great program and I'd recommend it.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:27 PM   #188
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtSF View Post
I'm a big fan of PokerJournal now!

With a little practice and a little fine-tuning of the preferences, nothing is awkward to enter anymore. With the possible exception of start/end time, as if you scroll the wrong way for end time you can reset the start time and have to do it over. But its really starting to accumulate a lot of data now, and the filters are terrific for slicing and dicing it to tell you what you want to know, and the graphs are just fun. A friend and I have taken to flashing eachother our PJ graphs as a quick way to update on recent successes and failures. And the export to PC and Excel couldn't be easier, which is primo for archiving and tax records.

I haven't tried the competitors so I can't call it the "best". But its a great program and I'd recommend it.
Between you, I and the rest of 2p2.... *shhhh keep it on the dlow* I have been beta testing PJ2.... Just wait and see is all I can say!!!! If it wasn't the best before... its definately the best now! More to come when I am allowed to say stuff including screen shots.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:37 PM   #189
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Re: What's your winrate/hourly rate playing live?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGFISH72 View Post
I've often wondered what a good hourly rate was playing $2/5 500NL live and at any other stakes come to mention it.

What is a good and what is an excellent hourly rate and what is the minimum number of hours you need to have recorded for a true idea of how good you are?

What is your NLH hourly rate at the stakes you play
and how many hours of play does that relate to?

I will post my info in due course.
2000 hours. IMO.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:46 PM   #190
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtSF View Post
I'm a big fan of PokerJournal now!

With a little practice and a little fine-tuning of the preferences, nothing is awkward to enter anymore. With the possible exception of start/end time, as if you scroll the wrong way for end time you can reset the start time and have to do it over. But its really starting to accumulate a lot of data now, and the filters are terrific for slicing and dicing it to tell you what you want to know, and the graphs are just fun. A friend and I have taken to flashing eachother our PJ graphs as a quick way to update on recent successes and failures. And the export to PC and Excel couldn't be easier, which is primo for archiving and tax records.

I haven't tried the competitors so I can't call it the "best". But its a great program and I'd recommend it.
Yep, I got it man. I really like it too.

A question: How do you take shots of the graphs and stuff from the iPhone? I've done it before but can't work out how exactly I did.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:47 PM   #191
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe View Post
Between you, I and the rest of 2p2.... *shhhh keep it on the dlow* I have been beta testing PJ2.... Just wait and see is all I can say!!!! If it wasn't the best before... its definately the best now! More to come when I am allowed to say stuff including screen shots.
Sweeet! Do you know if it will be a free update?

BTW nice PJ stats there too.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:52 PM   #192
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Re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by DiegoArmando View Post
... After calling a raise from a lagtard oop tonight I just had a feeling I was going to hit broadway. It came on the turn. Instinct. If I'd gone with logic I'd have folded my KTo...
lol
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:59 PM   #193
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiegoArmando View Post
Yep, I got it man. I really like it too.

A question: How do you take shots of the graphs and stuff from the iPhone? I've done it before but can't work out how exactly I did.
Hold down the home button then hit the on/off button on top and you will see your screen flash. The pic will be in your album

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiegoArmando View Post
Sweeet! Do you know if it will be a free update?

BTW nice PJ stats there too.

Dont know the $ specifics, if it will be free or cost, but I will tell you this................ Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. I will ask the developer if I can post some screen shots or talk about specifics.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:05 PM   #194
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Not directly related to finances but I saw a post in this thread about keeping a notebook or binder to record session results including key hands etc. immediately after a session. I don't know if anyone has seen these but maybe someone is interested...they are for noting key hands you want to review later. If this belongs elsewhere please let me know.



Originals available here
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:54 PM   #195
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by cAmmAndo View Post
Not directly related to finances but I saw a post in this thread about keeping a notebook or binder to record session results including key hands etc. immediately after a session. I don't know if anyone has seen these but maybe someone is interested...they are for noting key hands you want to review later. If this belongs elsewhere please let me know.



Originals available here
^^^ Bringing these to a brick and mortar establishment will not be very kosher
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:23 PM   #196
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I wouldn't whip it out at the table but I have pulled one out of my pocket while outside having a smoke and jotted down notes about the hand. What is the problem with that?
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:42 PM   #197
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by cAmmAndo View Post
I wouldn't whip it out at the table but I have pulled one out of my pocket while outside having a smoke and jotted down notes about the hand. What is the problem with that?
good as long as you're not doing it at the table.
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Old 08-06-2010, 11:59 PM   #198
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

man i think guys who wear glasses and hoodies and ipods at 1/2 is lame, if i saw soemone whip this out i think i would be trying to play almost every pot with him. My read would be bad by the book player.
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:04 AM   #199
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnyMouse View Post
DO NOT ALWAYS buy in for the max!!

also DO NOT listen to guys with 5 posts who make uninformed and unsupported assertions.

buy in for what you're comfortable for. buy in for what allows you and your style to take best advantage of the dynamics of the table.

there's a lot of value in being able to 3b pre/shove flops against players who have no idea what they're doing.

so many 1/2 fish will call a 3b getting horrendous odds trying to hit a small set or flop top pair with JT and then fold the flop when they miss (or call your shove on a T-high board when you haven't played a hand in an hour and are obviously on an overpair).

for more, see this post of mine from another thread.

poker is not a game of absolutes. there is no such thing as 'perfect poker' because unexploitable is almost never optimal. if you discovered how to play unexploitably and did so, you'd be leaving a ton of money on the table, because winning the most means exploiting weakness the best, which means being exploitable yourself.
+1. ive always thought this but i know its def. not the norm.

i almost always BI max at 2/2, but 3/5 here depends on my finances at the time. Im a recreational player so I dont have a poker roll but rather a checking account where i get direct deposit from my well paying job. some months after bills, expenses, i could only really afford to gamble 1K, sometimes its more.

recently i bought a house and was so broke I started bringing only 200-300 to play 2/2 then move up to 3/5 when i won, this was after not playing for 10 months.
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Old 08-07-2010, 12:53 AM   #200
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by MK7749 View Post
man i think guys who wear glasses and hoodies and ipods at 1/2 is lame, if i saw soemone whip this out i think i would be trying to play almost every pot with him. My read would be bad by the book player.
In my experience, lots of people with that image (especially if they are listening to iPod) will play like a TAGfish - see http://www.pokerlistings.com/strateg...ure-a-tag-fish

These are usually gonna be guys who have read enough about poker to know pre-flop hand selection (aka "tight is right" stuff) but their aggression will suffer post-flop - that is they will only be aggro when they hit, hence still playing too fit/fold level 1 poker. I think its also safe to say that these players are pretty inexperienced at playing deep.
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