Tipping is like anything else in this world.

You don't *have* to tip a lot in most situations but it often makes someone day better if you do.

I donate to charity. $1-$9 at a time.

Ymmv.

I've been there... Had a stretch where I got two outered over and over again all in on flop. Set would lose to overpair, overpair would lose to smaller overpair, etc. Or I'd 4bet big pre with big pairs, and lose to a flopped set after I made SPRs way too small to consider folding post.

This stuff happens.. But ultimately I think if you get to a point where you feel sick seeing J4o calling an allin against QQ it's time to take a little time off from poker. There is simply no way to play your best game when your mindset is like that.

You must be loved by the casino stuff.

This x100.

It took awhile for more to get to the place I'm at now. Every time big money goes I and I'm ahead, my mindset considers it a win of whatever my equity is. If I win the hand, I ran above ev and if I loose I ran below. Regardless of the outcome, I'm profiting.





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Would not count meal tip in poker income as its not an incremental cost driven by poker (I'd be eating out anyways, and would tip anyways)

Poker hand tipping obviously is an incremental expense so it should be coming out of your stack.

As for actual amount per hand, i think people pay too much attention to gross tips and not enough attention to much more important small expenses.

Shipping is a controversial topic especially in this forum. All I will say is that I do not keep track of tips. whatever I tip is just organically included in my win rate. I am mindful of the effect of tipping on my win rate.

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There's a whole tipping containment thread for this discussion.

Don't think that's true. @27 hands per hour, the average player wins 3 pots per hour. 20% of all players probably win 4 pots per hour or more

Listen up youngster. I understand equity and have since before I got into poker (finance). I knew the concept of sklanksy bucks before i knew who sklanksy was. I typed posts just like yours 4 years ago.

My post below still stands:

.

+1 to what Ava is saying.

This has nothing to do with not understanding equity or Sklansky dollars: but it has to to with how merciless soul crushing negative variance can be in livepoker when you face it at its worst. I would go on the limb to say that many posters on this forum havent come close to seing how bad it can get. Sometimes i have doubts that i have seen it myself- and i have seen alot of insane downswings/runbad. Couple of my worst swings almost made me quit poker 2-3 years ago: almost, but luckily i came back stronger and better than ever. But with more valuable experience on board. Experience that you cant buy for money- you need to _feel_ it yourself.

I certainly don't want to turn this into a tipping thread (it'll be my last post on this topic), but my guess is that the way you treat / interact / etc. with the dealers/staff is >>>>> tips (especially in a casino where all tips are pooled like in my case). It's possible I'm naive / not-as-self-aware-as-think, but I have a very good relationship with all the staff (many who have been here the ~12 years I've been playing in the room, there is a very low staff turnover rate here) and I highly doubt any of them would ever have anything but good things to say about me.

G/tipthreadG

I just recently completed 500 hours of 2/5 NLHE (since I started logging) so thought I'd post a new graph, filtered for only 2/5. I think the first 200 hours included a lot of re-remembering stuff, solidifying my game after I hadn't really played for over a year. But there was also some run ad mixed in there. Currently averaging 18.3BB/hour at 512 hours, and the last 300 hours have been pretty sick results-wise. Much of this has been in the form of gifts (villains calling off stack in terrible spots)... I've played 170 hours combined of other games (other stakes NLHE, and also PLO), and combined winrate is similar, though currently 10/10 NLHE and 5/5 PLO are showing the highest winrates.

i'm assuming the 2/5 was 1k cap? sick results

Yes, 1k max buyin, occasional straddles.

if you really want to be frugal with your tips, only tip on hands won at showdown. thats when the dealer did his/her job and dealt you the winning hand. if you win without showdown the dealer didn't do the work you did. tipping $1 on showndown winners is about as cheap as you can go for tips. you could also tip on hands that you won consecutively, for example the 2nd hand in a row you won you could tip.

i used to tip butt loads back in the day. if i won a $500 pot id be tipping $10 at least. i can remember tipping $20-$30 dozens of times after winning big pots. not anymore though, had to put an end to the gravy train.

also instead of always tipping the cashier you can tip on winning days. also i only tip $1 or $2 on food/drink orders.

tipping does have hidden advantages one being that the other players will feel better about losing to you somewhat knowing that you aren't a miser at least. i much prefer losing to a generous tipper myself. sometimes ill tip just because i feel like it will help the other players keep giving up to me..

There's a reason most of the guys that have logged thousands upon thousands of hours all say the same thing: live full-ring poker is one massive variance fest.

As someone who has played more hours than most in this sub and seen both sides of the variance coin I would agree with them.

I have played my fair share of hours in different locations and different countries as well (passing 3K hours logged+ i didnt log my sessions in the first 2 years of playing live)- and i agree to a certain extent.

What i do agree on is that variance (and the countless nuances of this word that we dont usually think about, for example pure card distribution) can be more cruel and soul crushing than many players have any clue of.

That being said, i am not on board with your statement if it means that you cant have any edge, you can never know your winrate or how proffitable of a player you are and so on. Basically i am not on board with using variance as an excuse for bad results over time or a big samplesize. Yes you can run bad for long long stretches, and yes 1K hour sample can look very different for player A and B even though they are at the same level of skill.

But some posters take it too far in my opinion, "blaming" it all on variance if they fail at poker in any sort of way.

Not what I was saying at all.

There is no such thing as a win rate. All you have are observed results from the past and confidence intervals moving forward. And since no two sessions are ever the same (meaning your "conditions" are dynamic and not static) then the confidence intervals you are using are also not going to be terribly accurate for predicting a *future WR.* A variance calculator is a fairly meaningless tool in my opinion wrt live poker.

The more I play the less I care about things that are out of my control. Some people run good, some people run bad, poker like life is not fair and the long run is longer than a lifetime so instead I worry about what I can control - making the best decision possible in each and every hand.

Everything else is randomness.

Yeah for sure, i wasnt neccesearily stating that you said exactly that (bolded part) either to be clear Johnny or i didnt mean to put words in your mouth. Just explained some more about my take on this topic.

I am noticing a new trend around the forums where players that give up on poker or change to other things is implying that the variance have all the blame. Like there isnt good or bad players, everyone is equally good/bad- the difference is just who runs good or bad for the next 1 K hours. Wich i think is quite ridicilous and huge exaggeration.

Most poker players I know conflate their poor skill with bad luck.

If I have no other information, I'd rather stake the guy who has made $40,000 over 1,000 hours of 2/5 than the guy who has made $39,999 over 1,000 hours of 2/5.

I'd take the 39,999 winner since his records are likely more accurate.

I'd take neither since anybody that's won 40k and needs a stake has some degen life leaks.

Point taken

why?

if i started playing again i'd give staking some serious thoughts, atleast you add value to someone's life & also great motivational/stay on top of your game tool.

Protip: Move to Australia where the dealers will refuse your tips and pay more in rake instead!