+1 - no "good" players ever buy-in for less than max at LLSNL...

Good point. What a fish!

Yeah I was just giving a hypothetical. Of course in reality many of the factors would change. Still, I think it would be more profitable to increase the stakes for a sacrifice in winrate. I mean if you're doubling the stakes your winrate would have to be more than cut in half for the deeper game to be more profitable and I don't think the drop in winrate would be that drastic for most winning players. Also not everyone will see a winrate decrease. The regfish who have a decent preflop and flop game but suck at playing rivers would likely benefit from a shallower game. Or it can allow the loose aggro guys to run the table over because the bigger blinds makes most of the table scared money which makes them play more fit or fold on flops.

Problem is that we're all projecting our own game into this discussion.

Do players in 1/2 or 3/5 see 2bb straddle as cutting their effective stack down by half? Hell no.

Do players adjust to the idea that $100 pot is really the same as $50 pot? Hell no.

$100 pot is just $100 pot to typical LLSNL players and they adjust to increased blinds and size of pot by subconsciously playing even tighter. I won't lie, I do the same.

What does that mean in an already tight game? It means you get to steal fatter blinds pre flop and with cbet on the flop. Is it profitable? Hell yes. Is it high variance? Not really, because LLSNL players only know one adjustment when it comes to big pots: "big pots, big hand."

At end of the day, if your game is full of competent players and not typical LLSNL donks who are all winners in their own head, then straddling might not be the answer to create more actions, but for rest of posters who do play a lot of LLSNL, straddling is not a bad idea.

If my table has a competent player it's usually because the floor hasn't allowed my table change yet.

Best player at my 2-5 table the other day thought he lost the hand with AA against 87 on 872,3,2 board.

This is exactly right.

In my game, nothing changes except to make a bigger pot in $ terms. In a game where actual adjustments are made, it may not be good.

You must have had a few too many.

Good thing I tabled the hand, eh?

Where is your game?

I'm a poker nomad, this game was Tuesday afternoon, Hard Rock Hollywood, in lolFL.

Think you are directed this at me because you somehow believe if the stakes are higher, the math magically changes.

Let me dumb it down for you with an extreme example, then it'll be easier to see:

1/2 game, $200 max buy in.

Mandatory straddle 50x, to $100, everyone has 2bbs to start.

What do you think happens to your win rate? Think about your range, paying blinds, implied odds, direct odds.

Is a 10bb/hr winner suddenly winning $1000/hour (10x$100) now? Is he even winning 1bb, or 0.1bb?

^ Clearly there's a big difference between 2bb play and 50bb play. If you're going to give that extreme of an example then we have to do one for the other end as well. What about a game where the blinds are 25c/50c and everyone is 1000bbs deep vs a 2/5 game with everyone 100bbs deep? Are you saying the 25c/50c game will have a higher hourly?

That's a silly example because the game changes so drastically. 50bb and 100bb just changes the value of SCs and set mining mostly, 2bb you get into a very mathematical game that's easily GTO solvable, and most players would play waaay to tight. I guess win rate would be super high if you knew how to play this game optimally against randoms.

In terms of big blinds an hour.. obviously

(This is referring back to you saying if you win at 3bbx5 = $15/hr, you can win 3bbx$20=60/hr)

Furthermore, just to clarify, my problem isn't with bumping up the blinds, it's with stack depth where it becomes <50bbs in 100bb capped games. You lose a LOT of your edge as a cash player when it's reduced to a shove/fold game (like in a later stage of tournament) - and thats exactly what you said - "a big difference between" deeper and shallower play. Otherwise, i'm happy to straddle in a game where the eff stack is at least around 100bbs.

I don't think GTO means what you think it means.

I disagree.

Have you ever watched a LLSNL donkament? Players routinely limp/fold 20% of their stacks and passively bleed away their stacks.

That's how LLSNL players adjust to straddle when the effective stacks are halved. If anything, the edge becomes greater against bunch of players who cannot adjust to a 50bb game.

And you have to remember what the original comparison was:

100bb bad game vs 50bb (straddle) game.

If people are playing too passively and folding too much, how could you consider raising the blinds a bad thing?

No dude.

Oh hey, thanks for speaking down to my level by dumbing it down.

Obviously at 2bb, there isn't any decision, and maybe that's why "good" players such as yourself stay away from any games less than 100bb, because maybe they all see them as 2bb game.

Hence I said earlier, good players don't play short games because they turn into calling station, the only way they know how to play short stacks.

Even at 50bb, LLSNL players don't adjust by doubling their bet or calling bigger pots with the same range, and that's where our edge is. If you don't get that, I can't dumb it down any further.

Well, GTO doesn't mean highest profit...

And win rate would never be super high in a 2bb effective stack game, the same reason why flipping coins isn't profitable.

But let me guess...

I know what it means very well ty. a 2bb game is easily GTO solvable.

People are likely to play this game completely wrong math wise.. Which leads to a high variance but likely also high win rate game over a big sample.

In your words, what does it mean to be GTO solvable?

Playing a style that is unexploitable. Tbh I'm not sure such a game is be GTO solvable, but isn't short stack tourney play up to like at least 20bb solved?

Hello everyone!

I think I've posted in here before, but I'm back. I'm going to venture into the live poker scene soon here in the states. I've built up a $4k roll from a $200 deposit on Bovada exclusively for the 1/2 game. I'm ~5-6bb/100 winner at 100nl 6max.

My question is: how should I adjust my game for the live games? I've played live a few times and the players are just so bad. But it's been a few years.