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Old 01-21-2016, 08:49 PM   #12876
MikeStarr
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I shouldve mentioned that Im not talking about someone playing for a living. I was talking about players who play for extra income after work.
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:54 PM   #12877
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

If you have a job with steady income and a crusher, you may not even need a BR.

It becomes a slippery slope argument.
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:54 PM   #12878
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by tellypl View Post
Friends. I am currently "beating" 1/2 at a rate of ~4bb/hr over 250 hours. (tiny sample) I am aware that 1k hours will be much more reliable. I am looking to take shots at 2/5 in the near future. Of course my w/r is not very reliable, but it's all we have to work with right now. Current roll is ~4k. I do not feel as if I am a fish on a superheater but I guess that doesn't mean much to you guys.

Questions:

1) Is there a B/R # to shottake?

2) Is there w/r over # of hours to shottake?

3) How many buyins to shottake?

Any 1 of the 3?

Thank you friends.
Good answers to your questions depend on your situation and your goals. Things such as, why do you play (fun, gambol, income), is your bankroll separate, how would you feel about replenishing your bankroll from regular funds, do you wish to draw income from your bankroll. Those are the questions off the top of my head, anyway. Your results suggest that thinking about the next level may be premature, but it depends.
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Old 01-21-2016, 08:58 PM   #12879
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Just stick to making olive poasts IMO
Nits ITT
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:01 PM   #12880
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by mikko View Post
Obviously spelt it wrong. Auto correct didn't do me any favors. My writing skills are equal to a 3rd grader. I am aware of this. Luckily my job is math and labor based.
Boiling oat runner?
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:02 PM   #12881
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Boiling oat runner?
That joke is lost on me. Need to dumb it down
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:09 PM   #12882
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Obviously spelt it wrong. Auto correct didn't do me any favors. My writing skills are equal to a 3rd grader. I am aware of this. Luckily my job is math and labor based.
Boiling oat runner?
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:28 PM   #12883
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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That joke is lost on me. Need to dumb it down

Ignore him, he has Tourette's
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:31 PM   #12884
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Ignore him, he has Tourette's
**** you you ****ing ****stick tourette's is a myth.
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:09 PM   #12885
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Boiling oat runner?
Maybe they've expanded into wheat. Not much math in that job tho.
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:37 PM   #12886
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by johnny_on_the_spot View Post
+1

I don't understand why every person who has a positive win rate over a small sample wants to move up despite being under rolled for the stakes they want to go to

Double that 4k and then start shot taking if you're winning at a good clip, 2/5 ain't going anywhere
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:14 PM   #12887
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
Actually most of them won't be able to beat it, because they think they're too good and will try to LAG it up.

What's more annoying than a know-it-all player at the table? A higher stake "pro."
Well, if by "pro" (with quotes and all), you mean any old lol-live player who thinks he's the bees knees because he plays higher stakes, then yeah.

But the post you were quoting talks about legit pros: players who crushed 1/2NL and are winners at 5/T. I'm quite certain if those guys played 1/2NL, they would win just the same. It's all just poker. The different blind amount wouldn't short circuit their brain and cause them to not know how to play poker anymore.

I'm a career crusher at 2nl and 5nl, even though these were never my regular stakes, and I have the database to prove it. Obviously not a brag by any stretch of the imagination ...
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:31 PM   #12888
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by suited fours View Post
Good answers to your questions depend on your situation and your goals. Things such as, why do you play (fun, gambol, income), is your bankroll separate, how would you feel about replenishing your bankroll from regular funds, do you wish to draw income from your bankroll. Those are the questions off the top of my head, anyway. Your results suggest that thinking about the next level may be premature, but it depends.
Thank you for your response, I have a lot of respect for you and a lot of the posters and seasoned vets on LLSNL, as well as a ton of respect for the posters just looking to get better. I am a long time lurker and not a big poster.

To answer some of your questions; I am 22 y/o graduating in Dec. I LOVE live poker and it is one of the many reasons I transitioned from online to live. I would play even if I was breakeven for the fun. I am lucky enough to be a marginal winner thus far in my tiny sample.

I have a life roll and poker roll. I work ~20 hours a week and it pays for life, while my poker playing is solely to build my BR. My long term hope is to be able to take a few months off after graduation to grind full time while I look for my FT career job. What happens after we will see, I just know I want to keep poker in my life no matter what.

I am definitely not trying to get ahead of myself, I am just a tad bit obsessed with planning ahead and I like to set goals. In addition to playing live 15-20 hours a week I try to put the same amount of poker study hours in as I do playing. I do this studying in various ways. 2+2 has been a massive help and I appreciate the wisdom and knowledge of you guys. Going busto would not affect my life negatively very much, but of course I want to avoid this.

I am no crusher and have a ton of leaks but I do feel that I have the personality and work ethic necessary to get better.
Thank you.
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Old 01-21-2016, 11:34 PM   #12889
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

If you can afford it, play 2/5 as soon as you can. Afford means different things for amateurs, semi pros and pros but imo, 2/5 is far more enjoyable and you need to play at that level to adjust to the different play
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:13 AM   #12890
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I realize I will get crucified for saying this because anyone with a different opinion might as well be a leper. A solid winning player does not need 20 buyins when playing live. The players are just way too bad for a solid winning player to have anywhere near a 10-15 buy-in downswing. If you have 10 buy in downswings more than once in a blue moon playing live, you arent as good as you think.

PS...a 4BB / hr player isnt what I would call a solid winning player.
lol at this
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Old 01-22-2016, 02:44 AM   #12891
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by surviva316 View Post
I'm quite certain if those guys played 1/2NL, they would win just the same. It's all just poker. The different blind amount wouldn't short circuit their brain and cause them to not know how to play poker anymore.

Different blind amount triggers something called ego, and that makes people do funny things.
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:24 AM   #12892
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

How did Poe predict Richard Parkers demise?
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Old 01-22-2016, 03:29 AM   #12893
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
I realize I will get crucified for saying this because anyone with a different opinion might as well be a leper. A solid winning player does not need 20 buyins when playing live. The players are just way too bad for a solid winning player to have anywhere near a 10-15 buy-in downswing. If you have 10 buy in downswings more than once in a blue moon playing live, you arent as good as you think.
I wouldn't say this is the case for everyone but you can definitely play a style with these characteristics. It's playing to minimize your risk of ruin.

People on here only care about maximizing hourly and if you participate in discussions but don't have that max hourly perspective, yes, you'll be crucified.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:35 AM   #12894
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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lol at this
which part? or was it all varying degrees of lol?
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:29 AM   #12895
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by FishtermerService View Post
Can I ask what you mean by "just based on what you've said though, you are definitely not a crusher".

I really don't feel like I am running hot. I am just waiting for a good hand, and I am getting it in good. Ya, rarely have I had people suck out on me which is nice.....I know I'll come back to "earth" soon. I still feel that "earth" is going to be a solid winrate and a high hourly.
Well, allow me then, to ask you a question:

I mid-February 2015, I started using a session logger. February was a losing month. However, from March thru November 2015, I logged 1118.3 hours with a win rate of $14.26 pr hour. That includes September's results where I lost $38.00.

In December & January I have logged 205.4 hours & am averaging $22.24 per hour. In January, I'm averaging $24.72 thru 102.13 hours. Can I say that I have finally broken thru the $20 per hour ceiling & should expect 2016 to be $20+?... I don't think so. Way too small a sample size.

I don't feel as though I've played that much better and I am not running hot, i.e., a much higher win percentage.

For instance, from February 2015 - November 2015, I won 62.2% of my sessions, but for Dec/Jan I averaged 63.79%.

The bulk of my work on my game has been on the weak links.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FishertermerService
Also, T-roy thank you for the input. I am trying to get 500 hours. Is 100 hours per month when I have a full time job still solid?
I couldn't imagine banking 100 hours a month with a full-time job long-term. No matter how young I was. That would be 65 hours per week between the job & poker in a 4 week month. Then the driving too & from work/casino. If you're single - all the house chores etc. If you're married, or have a girlfriend - she ain't gonna' put up with it forever. When are you going to exercise, study your game & escape from the job/poker for awhile during the month??

I spend ~110 hrs on a 4 week month, actually sitting at the poker table & I'm retired. I don't have a 1hr+ drive to the casino.

Last edited by ZuneIt; 01-22-2016 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:34 AM   #12896
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Well, allow me then, to ask you a question:

I mid-February 2015, I started using a session logger. February was a losing month. However, from March thru November 2015, I logged 1118.3 hours with a win rate of $14.26 pr hour. That includes September's results where I lost $38.00.

In December & January I have logged 205.4 hours & am averaging $22.24 per hour. In January, I'm averaging $24.72 thru 102.13 hours. Can I say that I have finally broken thru the $20 per hour ceiling & should expect 2016 to be $20+?... I don't think so. Way too small a sample size.

I don't feel as though I've played that much better and I am not running hot, i.e., a much higher win percentage.

For instance, from February 2015 - November 2015, I won 62.2% of my sessions, but for Dec/Jan I averaged 63.79%.

The bulk of my work on my game has been on the weak links.
It sounds like you dont have a lot of confidence but I would say that you've gotten much better since last year.
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:38 AM   #12897
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by eldiesel View Post

People on here only care about maximizing hourly and if you participate in discussions but don't have that max hourly perspective, yes, you'll be crucified.
Wow, you lost a debate. Get over it. Or better yet. Learn from it.

F.w.i.w
RP has destroyed many egos over the years. He was probably a virgin on high school debate team.
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:38 AM   #12898
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Thanks Mike! However, trust me! 205 hours is a 'drop in the bucket.' And to those wanting to swing their dicks with their win rates: I only track mine for my own measurement of my improvement. However crude a measurement it may be, it's the only way I know how to measure it with numbers. I can say, after reviewing hands after a session, that I didn't make nearly the mistakes I use to in the past. I can say I played X# of hands much better than in the past - however, it still boils down to: how does that compute to the improvement in my bottom line.

Last edited by ZuneIt; 01-22-2016 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:54 AM   #12899
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by VolumeKing View Post
I for one would love to see people's break even stretches
All 1/2NL

September 2015 - 74.46 hrs - lost $38.00. Running so bad that I took a week off & didn't come close to my usual 110 hrs per month.

August 2015 - 111.98 hours - win rate $12.74 per hour.

Combine the two - 182.5 hours - win rate $6.46 per hour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardParker
12bb/hr should be crushing.
More if you don't tip the dealer unless the pot is $60+

Last edited by ZuneIt; 01-22-2016 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 01-22-2016, 12:06 PM   #12900
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outfit
How beatable is a 1/2 game with a 20bb buy-in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited fours View Post
I was going to the question with: If anyone takes you serious & goes thru the trouble of answering you - they're a fish.......Then I saw this

Well played sir!

Quote:
Originally Posted by baannii4 View Post
Hi. I've been reading through some of this thread and I wanted some advice on moving up limits. I currently play 2/3 and have a massive hourly. I'm at $45.89/hour over 150 hours at a game that charges $5/hour and has rake 10% capped at $10.

I know this is a really small sample size and this hourly is probably not sustainable but how much longer should I play before trying some 2/5?
Let's put 150 hours in its proper perspective. Take a 1 pint spray bottle & fill it with water. Set the nozzle on a real fine mist & pump it once. That's almost 150 hours.......maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suited fours
Always a thrill when you go for a thin value bet and Villain tanks, starts mumbling about hands and you realize that you've read him completely wrong and that you've actually just made a bluff. Full range of poker emotions all in 3 minutes.
Most excitement I had in my 5.1 hr session last night where I averaged <$10 per hour: I'm in seat 9. Seat 3 [whom I have perfect view of] & seat 6 go HU on the flop. 3 ck/calls 6's near pot size bet on a 9 high flop, that started out 6 way for $6.00. Jack on the turn, which doesn't pair the board. Seat 3 looks astonished & checks. Seat 6 bets & 3 ck/raises. Seat 6 calls. River comes with another jack. Seat 3 gives a mild frown & softly rocks his head back & forth. Then slowly looks down. Then donks a pot size bet. Seat 6 takes 15 seconds to call.

Seat 3 was a mid 20's Black guy & seat 6 was a 60+ white guy who never looked at his V. We all know what seat 3 had. I had a hard time not busting out loud. I am keeping a journal on all these classic tells that come from 1/2 fish & may offer up a COTM towards the end of the year. There is so much $$$$ to be made/saved paying attention!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStar
My main point was that one persons 100 hr sample might be fairly accurate to their long term results depending on their playing style. Another person may need 1000 hrs to have any idea what their win rate is. So telling someone with 100 hrs that they have no idea what their win rate is yet when you have no idea how they play isnt necessarily correct.
Save that statement you made & look back it after you've logged 2500 hours sitting a poker table & ask yourself if you still believe it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardParker
Now I want to know about the damn olives...
Just buy the most expensive. You won't be making a mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parellelflux
You cant value bet thin to the exact point of your expertise (unless im misinterpreting). The only way to keep getting better at it ("mastering") is to keep on pushing the boundary where you will occasionally value-own yourself.
Thanks for the reminder!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearu
Incoming theory, the closer you play to GTO the more variance you are going to have this is all about looking for that 51% and with it comes swings. The other option is to play exploitively this means putting yourself in spots that can be exploited by others and betting based on opponents tendencies, in hopes to receive additional value.
Concerning yourself with GTO in 1/2NL is a waste of time. Even true in many 2/5 donkathons. Just ask Suited Fours about Jacksonville Florida.

Last edited by ZuneIt; 01-22-2016 at 12:33 PM.
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