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Old 01-02-2016, 11:36 PM   #12426
johnnyBuz
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

^ do you have to pay self income tax plus ordinary income tax? Does that cover social security and all that bull****? That kinda sucks
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:48 PM   #12427
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Self employment tax consists of 12.4% social security tax and 2.9% for medicare. The total equals 15.3%.
After that is taken out of your profit then you pay federal income taxes.
This is only if you file as a pro.

I did not file as a pro last year so I paid half of the self employment tax on my winnings.

If I did file as a pro and poker was my only income, my taxable income would only be $8973 after deductions. I would end up paying $893 in federal income taxes and $2930 in self employment taxes :/.

If I file as unemployed and reported my income as gambling(hobby) I would only pay $1110 in federal income taxes.

Last edited by mreps; 01-02-2016 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:01 AM   #12428
johnnyBuz
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Can you start an LLC that makes little to no money and declare that your primary job and then only pay half the self employment tax on winnings?
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:10 AM   #12429
mreps
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

No
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:16 AM   #12430
johnnyBuz
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Hmm so what is the upside to declaring yourself a poker pro rather than unemployed?
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:34 AM   #12431
mreps
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

If your a big tourney player and you have a lot of flight, hotel, meal deductions it would help a lot. As for cash game players IDK. I think it only benefits the IRS if you chose to file as a pro, and once you do I don't think you can switch back. I wonder what the IRS will think if you are unemployed but are making 50-100k gambling.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:36 AM   #12432
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Found the answer. https://www.irs.gov/uac/Business-or-...for-Deductions
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:39 AM   #12433
bwslim69
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by mreps View Post
Self employment tax consists of 12.4% social security tax and 2.9% for medicare. The total equals 15.3%.
After that is taken out of your profit then you pay federal income taxes.
This is only if you file as a pro.

I did not file as a pro last year so I paid half of the self employment tax on my winnings.

If I did file as a pro and poker was my only income, my taxable income would only be $8973 after deductions. I would end up paying $893 in federal income taxes and $2930 in self employment taxes :/.

If I file as unemployed and reported my income as gambling(hobby) I would only pay $1110 in federal income taxes.
You either pay the SE tax or you don't. There is no half SE tax. IOW if you are a pro you pay it on the net. If you are a rec the SE tax is not relevant.

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Can you start an LLC that makes little to no money and declare that your primary job and then only pay half the self employment tax on winnings?
See above has no bearing. You either are a pro or you are not. In the case you describe it seems unlikely that you would avoid the pro status but it's not that simple
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:40 AM   #12434
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by mreps View Post
If your a big tourney player and you have a lot of flight, hotel, meal deductions it would help a lot. As for cash game players IDK. I think it only benefits the IRS if you chose to file as a pro, and once you do I don't think you can switch back. I wonder what the IRS will think if you are unemployed but are making 50-100k gambling.
It can be an annual election. It is largely facts and circumstance driven
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:42 AM   #12435
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Gambling rules are specific to gambling income and deductions only. Though admittedly, they mirror hobby loss rules in many ways
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:43 AM   #12436
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by bwslim69 View Post
You either pay the SE tax or you don't. There is no half SE tax. IOW if you are a pro you pay it on the net. If you are a rec the SE tax is not relevant.



See above has no bearing. You either are a pro or you are not. In the case you describe it seems unlikely that you would avoid the pro status but it's not that simple
Oops, I meant you pay half of what you would pay for SE tax. 6.2% SS and 1.3% medicare. The employer pays the other half.

One benefit of filing as a pro if poker is your only income is you can contribute to an IRA and solo 401k which also lowers your taxable income.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:43 AM   #12437
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Slim gotta go back to the Ron Swanson avatar.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:47 AM   #12438
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Hmm so what is the upside to declaring yourself a poker pro rather than unemployed?
The comparison is pro vs rec not pro vs. unemployed. I hesitate to give hard and fast advice, but if you are otherwise unemployed, sustain yourself through poker winnings and play a material number of hours, I suspect you would correctly be classified as a pro for tax purposes.
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Old 01-03-2016, 01:09 AM   #12439
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I would be tempted then to be a part time bartender just to make enough to max out my Roth IRA and declare the rest as hobby.
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Old 01-03-2016, 03:12 AM   #12440
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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winning consistently is insanely hard. Soooo much goes into it. 2 nights ago I played with a dude who is generally LOCK DOWN. He was vpipping north of 80% and running some insanely retardo bluffs. He torched 3.5k in a couple of hours. Not sure why he uncorked - but recovering from that one is going to take a long time.

point is playing disciplined, focused, and well week in and week out with out going bananas aint ez
Yup. If you have a weak mental game you're basically dead in the water as an aspiring poker pro.
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Old 01-03-2016, 05:25 PM   #12441
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

TIL people pay taxes on poker winnings
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Old 01-03-2016, 07:56 PM   #12442
mreps
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by IAmRobik View Post
TIL people pay taxes on poker winnings
Some people win a decent amount and want to invest it. Others do not want that money 'unsecured' at home and put it in a savings account. If it is in the bank and not reported as income they will not withstand an audit...
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Old 01-03-2016, 08:13 PM   #12443
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Others do not want that money 'unsecured' at home and put it in a savings account. If it is in the bank and not reported as income they will not withstand an audit...
3 words: safety deposit box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmRobik View Post
TIL people pay taxes on poker winnings
There is a finite number of things that you can pay for with cash that leave no paper trail. I would think most pros max out these cash payments (groceries, gas for car, etc) and then report something closer to the difference as income. But there is no getting around paying a mortgage or car loan without leaving paper trails, so you kinda need to show some income sometime
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Old 01-03-2016, 08:41 PM   #12444
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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3 words: safety deposit box.



There is a finite number of things that you can pay for with cash that leave no paper trail. I would think most pros max out these cash payments (groceries, gas for car, etc) and then report something closer to the difference as income. But there is no getting around paying a mortgage or car loan without leaving paper trails, so you kinda need to show some income sometime
Usually gotta pay for your hookers and blow with cash anyway.
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Old 01-03-2016, 08:43 PM   #12445
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Usually gotta pay for your hookers and blow with cash anyway.
That is obviously a Cost of Doing Business expense....
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Old 01-03-2016, 11:00 PM   #12446
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Usually gotta pay for your hookers and blow with cash anyway.
I did say groceries, gas for car, etc
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:21 AM   #12447
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I just hit about 300 hours at 2/4 live and am winning (ahead when I go home) 57% of all my sessions, but had a few big losses putting me slightly in the red, when looking at the $ total.

Q: In terms of figuring out if I suck; does the 57% win rate "trump" the actual loss I am experiencing, or is the red/total $ all that matters?
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Old 01-04-2016, 04:29 AM   #12448
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

All that matters is the money baby. Winning % is totally irrelevant imo.
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:04 AM   #12449
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I know this isn't a new idea or anything, but I'm getting back into live poker again after some time off, and playing this weekend struck me how silly the idea of an hourly rate is (at least in a room like Borgata).

I played 2/5 this weekend. I played 20ish hours split into 5 sessions. For two of those sessions, the table was so good that I would be absolutely shocked if my hourly wasn't near $100 per, maybe even better than that. In one of the sessions, when I had the absolute Jesus seat... I would absolutely bet I could have sustained $100+ an hour if there were some way for those exact conditions to remain forever (which of course there isn't).

For the other three sessions, I could probably stay ahead of the rake if I played really well. My absolute laser-focused A game may have been like a $10-an-hour winner in those games. I'm not even sure of that.

I know none of this is breaking any new ground, just seems so impossible to me to even hazard a guess at my "winrate" in 2/5 when the table conditions swing so hugely.

The reason I think I do well overall is I played two long sessions at the great tables and never more than 2-3 downs at the bad tables.

Trying to put a number on my winrate seems basically like an exercise in asking how well I'm going to table select/how good I'm going to run with random assignments of table/seats.
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:41 AM   #12450
Garick
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by BlueLagoon32 View Post
I just hit about 300 hours at 2/4 live and am winning (ahead when I go home) 57% of all my sessions, but had a few big losses putting me slightly in the red, when looking at the $ total.

Q: In terms of figuring out if I suck; does the 57% win rate "trump" the actual loss I am experiencing, or is the red/total $ all that matters?
It's all one long session, bruh.
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