He didn't say he lost $10k. He said he spent around $10k that he made from playing poker.

Maybe try buying in for 60bbs. That should give you the ability to play postflop to a point. Just can't call as wide as if you were deeper.

JewBear,

Get a second job. Don't try to grind out 1/2 NL on a super-short "bankroll." It is almost impossible to make decent money at 1/2 NL even when you are playing your A game. When you are on such a super-short "bankroll," it is impossible to play anything close to your A game because any ALL-IN pot represents such a ridiculously high % of your "bankroll." Therefore, your mind will be thinking about all the wrong things like "OMFG, should I call off my whole roll with just one pair, or should I wait for a better spot to get it in for my whole roll?!??!?!" instead of focusing on fundamentally good play.

In other words, I doubt that you have any meaningful win-rate in this 1/2 NL game when you are playing with basically ZERO bullets behind you.

Thanks for all the input . Not trying to be a coward or anything here lol, I just figured given my finances I had the best shot at building a bankroll if I started off shortstacking (more BI's). I have given thought to just buying in with 100bb, but the thought of only having 3 BI on the poker pro tables is pretty scary, however it sounds like I'd be better off. The lack of post-flop play with 30bb is starting to get to me anyways, so I think I'll give it a shot later on today.

As for getting another job, I have a 60% course load until the end of july so getting another job right now is out of the question.

Then just buy in full-stacked and try to play your best despite the fact that you have only 3BIs to your name.

I give you about a 95% chance of bustoing your roll though. Since you aren't really interested in other more reasonable options, good luck.

Again, I don't mean that in a mean way at all. You put yourself in this horrible spot, however, so there should be no mincing words about it.

FYI to all you young guns who like to "spend" your recent poker "winnings" because you "won" X amount over the last Y sessions...

You didn't necessarily "win" what you thought you did. It is very likely that you were on the positive side of variance. So, if you "won" 4k last month over 100 hours, you didn't "make $40/hour." It seems like you did, but you don't know your long-term win-rate, so maybe you only deserved to make $20/hour ($2k/month) due to your skills, and you got lucky to receive an extra $20/hour (extra $2k/month) this month due to positive variance.

So, if you spend $3k after having a "good month," you are really just cannibalizing your business's working capital. You only deserve to credit yourself for $2k/month of wages. You spent THAT, and then cannibalized ANOTHER $1k from your bankroll.

Is it nice to buy stuff? Of course, it feels good to buy stuff. On the other hand, any true businessman would never keep depleting his working capital to buy stuff because a true businessman would know that the business will ultimately go bankroll if working capital isn't big enough to sustain the eventual bad turn in business climate.

Or in the case of poker players, the eventual run bad of negative variance. Which will often come sooner and last for much longer than most poker players can even imagine.

FWIW, I have seen countless promising young guns do this. They thought they were good at poker because they had a nice run of cards. Then they overspent their money because they believed their own press releases, and they decided that they needed a baller lifestyle to match their baller profession. Then they had a little taste of run bad and promptly bustoed their rolls when they tilted their minds off because they couldn't understand how geniuses like themselves could possibly keep losing to live "donks" and "fish" over weeks/months.

Thanks for the post.

I think it's hard for the average 'grinder' 'semi-pro' or whatever you want to call your self to remember that sometimes. If you true win rate is 6bb / hour and you play 100 hour, you've only made 600bb. Anything more or less is just variance.

I think most 2plus2ers come into live poker with a "Golden Goose" mentality. They see all the donks and fish doing ******ed stuff in the live NLHE games, and they say to themselves: "Wow! Playing cards against these idiots must be printing money!"

And that is how most 2plus2ers get into the live poker grind.

In the beginning, some run hot, and some do not. Usually, the ones who run bad quit poker. Meanwhile, the ones who run hot start thinking that "Poker is the Golden Goose for me. If I keep playing this game regularly, I can get rich off all these Golden Eggs."

Now, most people aren't stupid enough to kill the Golden Goose immediately to try to get all the eggs at once. After all, we all read that story as kids.

Nevertheless, the vast majority of 2plus2ers are not smart enough to realize that you have to feed and nourish and nurture the Golden Goose if you want it to keep laying Golden Eggs (and especially if you want it to lay larger ones). You have to keep the Golden Goose healthy at the very least. It would probably be best to nurture it to be even larger and healthier than a normal Golden Goose...but whatever, that's my life Nit view.

The point is that the poker version of the Golden Goose needs the following: healthy growing bankroll, high quality volume, and constant study away from the felt. The truth is that the vast majority of 2plus2ers don't do any of the above 3 things. During the good times, they forget to feed the Goose even though they have plenty of money/time to doso. Then, when the bad times come, they let the weak and famished Golden Geese die of starvation.

You will constantly find guys who think poker is going to be their Golden Goose. But almost none of them bother to feed and nurture their Golden Goose. And then they wonder when the Golden Eggs no longer keep coming...

Currently finishing up my worst month in two years, managed to keep it profitable though. Was down $1700 for the month about halfway through, so any profit at all is good enough. Just ran insanely bad with the coolers. In a one-week span I ran KK into AA four times, QQ into KK, QQ into AA, lost with JJ in a 3-way all-in on flop for $1800 pot in a 1/3 game on J-5-7 rainbow (89 gets there on turn), lost with nut flush (A2) vs QQ in 3b pot for $1600 pot on 4542Q, lost $1600 pot with KK vs AA on A-8-T-8-K in 4b pot (thread - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...t-pot-1453217/), you get the idea.

The JJ and A2ss hands were both against my super aggro friend in the span of about an hour, and the JJ hand in particular was pretty interesting. Major action 1/3 game at Wynn, button straddles, friend raises $20 in MP, button calls, I call in SB instead of 3b since we are 200bb deep. Flop J-5-7r, I check, he bets $42, button calls, I c/r $125, he thinks for a bit and 3b to $285, button tanks and shoves all-in for $550, I re-shove $600, he calls. Turn 6 river K, 89 for the nuts. Button just had a pair and jammed because he thought my friend had nothing (since he probably flats the c/r with an overpair) and figured I would fold everything but sets given the action.

A2ss hand also kind of interesting. I raise $12 in MP, another friend in SB calls, aggro friend goes $45 and we are $750 deep so I call, SB calls. Flop 454, SB checks, aggro friend leads $75, I raise to $200, SB folds (says he had JJ), friend calls. Now I know he has an overpair and will play the "let's brick the turn and get it in when his equity is cut in half" game. Turn 2, he checks I check back, river Q he thinks for a bit and leads $50 into a pot of about $540. I jam the other $500 and he snaps it off with the old QQ, sweet river card, easy game.

Some stats:

June 2014:








635 hours of 1/2:









205 hours of 2/5:

Way too crush wj, especially impressive to book a winning month in spite of the coolers (which I'm sure can take a toll mentally and make it difficult to play your A game). 17.6bb/hr at 1/2 over a non-hit-and-run sample size? Wow, nice. And as always, an insane amount of volume for a non-pro-with-day-job - I thought my 49 hours in June was impressive!

GjellyG

It's not that I'm not interested in "reasonable options", it's that they aren't available unless quitting live poker altogether (for now) is one of them (which I know is probably the best option, but hey, I enjoy playing). I was just wondering if anyone on here had been in a similar situation and had made it work (shortstacking), but I have taken in all of the advise people have given me here and plan to use it.

Also, I would say that using poker winnings to fund university (and thus avoiding student debt) is a pretty not horrible spot.

Solid advise, if this is at all in reference to my OP where I said I spent my bankroll, I'd choose spending my poker bankroll over 10k in student debt 10/10 times . Ideally I would never take money out of my bankroll while still at 1/2.

JewBear:

When I first started playing live I took a couple hundred from my life roll and just went to the casino (after playing home games and small stakes online (poorly)). I'd buy in for $100 and play *really* tight until I got a hand, then look to get it in. You're basically set mining with really thin IO, hoping to get enough with multiple callers to make it profitable. You've also got just enough that you can threaten an uncomfortably large bet if you open $10-12 with AK and C-bet.

It worked OK for me, but I was losing value being even that short. $100 with a ~10% range worked when I got paid off. $60 with a 25% range that you seem to indicate trying is *NOT* going to work well.

The minimum that I'd recommend to take shots at rebuilding a working roll is $100/bullet.

just curious. if you knew he had an overpair, why did you shove the river?
did you expect him to call $450 with JJ, KK, or AA?

KK/AA yes, JJ probably not. More combos of AA/KK than QQ. If he's folding KK+ then it's a puke fold. Are you really just calling the lolsmall $50 bet on river? That just seems bad, especially if he turns over KK/AA. It really doesn't matter though. If he checks I shove. If he shoves I call. Same result.

Yeah, it's not fun when you feel like you're going to get coolered every time you have a big hand. My workday is usually done by 4pm so plenty of pokering time.

I agree. This is pretty much how I look at paying for expenses with poker winnings.

Speaking of a month of being on the wrong end of coolers, I'm reading the old 2+2 at the Wynn these three hands happen in one orbit:

One limp hero raises 68hh with $400 effective, bb calls limper folds. Flop 589hss, bb checks hero bets $25, bb calls. Turn 7h! B. Checks hero bets $60, bb c/r $150, hero shoves, bb snaps with JThh. That one was pretty sick.

Two hands later mp opens $15, hero 3b $55 with QQ, mp snap shoves $400, hero folds.

Two hands after that MP opens $16, hero calls in CO, SB and BB call. Flop A24hh checks to hero, bet $45, V c/r $90, hero shoves $300 more, V calls with A5. Turn 3 river brick.

July can't come fast enough...yeah I know which way BBV is.

Booked another winning month after starting off pretty bad, was down $2k through first 3 weeks. Had a monster day that showed me a $2900 profit day with $1500 coming in first 2 hands of that session.

105 hours $1563 profit for June

Total hours/profit since keeping track last 4 months

407 hours $13,719 profit $33.71/hour
All but 5 hours @ $3/5 500cap nl games

This is all hours played after I get done working a regular job 50-60 hours a week. Usually get in a play from 6-10pm almost every night.

Been very happy with the way I've been playing. Finding my biggest leak to be bluffing people I know wont fold and bluff them anyway thinking they suddenly will...

Saving to pay for a wedding in September and we had a budget of $25k, hoping to have it completely saved up from poker winnings and already very close. Obviously this has made my fiancé a lot more willing/acceptable of me playing so much. Crossing fingers for no wedding debt!

Lets say you were given $1,000 to play live poker with for one year. You can't spend a penny more than that. What would you do to prevent busting while still making a profit? Short stack 1/2 with 20 buyins? Play full stacked with 5 buyins and hope you don't get coolered? Play super nitty?

Just curious to see some of your responses and how you would manage this. I've seen people try and turn X amount of $$ into X amount of money before online but not live.

You cannot do nothing to make it happen. If you don't get card dead or unlucky early on, you may survive after improving your bankroll to about 50 buy-ins. Else you will bust.

With $1/2 as your only option, you have a high chance, like 90+%, of going broke no matter how good you are. Play online and build a roll or save up money through your job

This, except that 20 BIs is plenty to move up in live, imo.

I'd play full-stacked, but avoid mildly +EV spots that are high variance, and hope for the best.

I agree that there is a significant risk of ruin, but I seriously doubt it's anywhere near 90% for a good player. Quite possibly your number is correct for someone who has never played 1/2 in a casino, but if he actually is good I think he has a very good chance (>50%) to win enough for a decent bankroll before he busts.

I'm actually sort of in the situation he described. I went to play some 1/2 with a friend a couple of months ago. I took $400 out of my checking account and was okay with losing it. At the time I did not consider it a bankroll, just entertainment money. I won $800! Spent most of it on life stuff but went back a couple days later with $400 again with no intentions of continuing if I lost. I won $900!

At that point, I put $1,000 aside as a real bankroll and said I'm going to take a shot fully knowing if I ran bad I was out of action. 135 hrs later I'm still going and my bankroll is a little more than halfway to fully healthy.

If you can absolutely not replenish in any way I think you should buy in full, but only play at the softest times and look for weak passive tables which should reduce variance and tough spots. Play a conservative and cautious style until you get off your feet.

Note even with the best of strategies you could very well just run bad out of the gate and go busto. Good luck.