A thousand hours to determine your winrate? That's at least 5months. It should not take you 5months to determine your winrate.

u can determine ur winrate after 20 hours but it doesn't mean anything

Its not like we play online. The competition is horrible at LLSNL. So your winrate goes up and down. But if your not crushing the game. Then you shouldn't worry about winrates. Honestly if you have figured out how to crush the games. Winrate should be the last thing on your mind. Moving up to 2/5 should be your goal. I don't even care about my winrate. All it is to me is how much money I make an hour.

Your winrate is what you make an hour.....

This is not true you do need atleast 1k hours....for instance I went on a stretch of 180 hours making 16k....does that mean that's what I expect to make...no....that's called a heater and very unrealistic for 2/5

I seen a dude crush 5/10 for $500 dollars an hour. Over 3 thousand hands. At 5 dollars a hand. That's a heater.

But like I said I been playing over a year. I'm at 6bbs an hour. Have yet to go on a heater, so I guess I suck. When I go on a heater I will move up in stakes.

Winrates suck I can work 12hours and get payed zero. So basically just try beat the game. For 5 to 6bbs an hour and you will be straight.

I would have, I had over 1500 hours logged on Poker Journal at mostly 1-2nl and a few sessions of 2-5nl then my f*****n Iphone crashed and i lost it all. Now i've got about 150 hours logged running at about $28.50/hour (brag). Anyway when i get up to 1k hours I'll gladly post it, will take a while as i play about 130hrs/month.

Any software for Droid?

I'm interestedin keeping more accurate data this year

probably, check their app store, i think PJ is available.

Yea found it poker income for iPhone and Droid....its pretty awesome graphs n all

How does it work?

You just input data for the game...start the clock..and it programs it all...its a cinch

So you input your own data? Or other people at the table as well. Sounds like a lot of work.

I need to get that.

Personally, I don't know how many hours of live play are needed to determine a win rate. Year over year, mine has been going up as I progress in poker.

But, there have been 2 stretches in the past 2 years, 1 lasting 5 months and 1 lasting 4 months (playing full time throughout) when I made nothing over that period. Yet, my overall winrate for both years was better than the year before. Last year's winrate was 50% better than my winrate for 2009.

Thus, it seems to me that 1000 hours isn't enough - because variance can and will hit for at least that long. Maybe 2000 is enough? I don't know. I'm no longer worried about it, because I know that as I keep getting better at making good decisions, the winrate will take care of itself in the long run.

Lee

I don't know why all the talk about hours. Its irrelevant, 1k hours will take you a whole year. The goal is to move up in limits.

2k hours because of variance. Please, I hate the term variance. Sounds like an excuse to me.

Besides if anyone is playing 1/2 for multiple years. I suggest a move up. Maybe variance is keeping you at 1/2. Ill rather shortstack 2/5.

20 hours? That's nothing. I like to determine my winrate every hour using only the hour before for data. Talk about variance. Anyone else ever had their winrate change by 100BB/hr in a day?

poker income is good but i prefer Poker Journal it has more options.

First of all, playing full time, 1000 hours doesn't take a year. It takes maybe 6 months.

I'm not so sure, now, that the goal is to move up in limits. I used to think that it was. However, there is the reality that making a living at low stakes is doable - without the added varience and tougher competition that is often found at higher stakes. Plus, we all have our limits. Peter Principle and all that. At this point, I'm not sure how high the limits are that I will end up playing at. I do know that there are some people - few, but there are some - who really are "supreme donkey crushers", and who manage to make hundreds of dollars a session playing 1/2 - 2/5.

Frankly, if I could learn how to do that, I'm not sure that moving up in stakes would have a lot of appeal. Why not just take the easy money and run?

Lee

True, but you "could" make more by playing higher stakes, at 1-2 its hard to make much more over $25 in the long run. Which that is decent, but if you move up to 2-5 you could be making double your income.

I only said this because a true live winrate is 5-6bbs, a true donkey crusher is at 7+BB winrate.

At 1/2 that would be 10 to 1e dollars an hour. Or 14+ dollars an hour. Really not worth the drama of poker for that.

But at 2/5 your winrate would be 25 or 30 dollars an hour. Or 35+ dollars an hour if your a donkey crusher.

To answer your question, yes, its easy money in the fish pool. No need to go for the hard money. But 2/5 is horrible players with a lot more money.

Poker Income seems very buggy on my droid X. Software 2.2.

Force closes whenever I try to add a game (customize)

?? Not sure where you are getting your win rates from, but they don't reflect the reality I am experiencing and thinking of. 1/2, 1/3, and 2/5 NLHE games are beatable by a lot more than 5-6bbs. Heck, I'm beating them for more than that, and I'm not really all that good yet.

A winrate of $20+ is certainly doable for a 1/2 or 1/3 game, $30 per hour for a 2/5 game.

And that is NOT by a supreme donkey crusher. I know of a couple of people (I can think of maybe 3 or 4, total, in this regard that I've seen play) who can and do beat these games by $50 an hour or more. Maybe (probably?) much more.

Lee

This is somewhat embarrassing but I do want to post this for suggestions from anyone that has gone through something similar. Ill try to keep it short, but I apologize in advance if its not.

I started playing seriously about a year and a half ago (my senior year in high school) and had a lot of success. I played a ton and continued playing in college( both live and online---mostly live). Through the combination of poor bankroll management, severe FPS, a bit of runbad, and over-raked underground games, I managed to completely deplete my poker roll and a hefty portion of my life-roll (poker roll was fairly small).

I read and study this game a ton, and quitting is not an option, as poker has been a huge part my life for the last 2 years I know I have a mind for this game and if I drop the FPS and gain a little patience and discipline, I can be very profitable and continue this game as my primary hobby.

Has anybody been through this before? I plan on getting a few jobs and making some money here and there in the next few months/year. How many buy-ins should I build up(earn) before I put my next 100 BB's on the table? Should I shortstack? I will probably be playing scared money but I cant imagine waiting to make $2000 before stepping back into 1/2 live.

Please feel free to share similar experiences and ALL advice is appreciated.
And yes, I realize this will diminish credibility towards my future posts, but I feel my problem has been gameplan and not execution.

Im the normally the guy who says other BM and LVL way overestimate BR requirements. But 2K segregated is about the least i would go in with. If you don't have the discipline to make this happen, you dont have the discipline to be a long term winner at the game... this is coming from a guy who has

A) been playing professionally since 03
B) watched many friends more talanted than me go busto because they didnt have the life management skills to handle this life.

AORN, what are you doing life wise? College? Work?

And no, don't short stack. Youre just giving up too much value against fishes who play terribly 100bbs deep

I go to a really good school in Atlanta and my studies are obviously my priority right now. But I still have a ton of time for poker and stuff and like I said, a mix of scattered bad play and variance has depleted my roll. Poker does not need to be my income and Im not looking to go Pro or anything but I obviously cant play ATM and would like to get to a point where I can only move upwards and never go Busto again, but I feel if I start with something like $400 Ill be scared money and could potentially end up right back where I am now.