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Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

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Old 09-25-2010, 06:22 PM   #251
KneedUrDough
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

The average PF raise @ ur $2/$5 game is $20-$27? That's crazy!

Congrats on pulling six figures out the pockets of those rich farmers. Sounds like u neeeeeed nothing at all!
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:00 PM   #252
2OutsNoProb
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

Why does this guy think that $20-$27 is a big preflop raise size for 2/5 NL live? Unless he meant his 1/2 sample?
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:17 PM   #253
smallfish69
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

Quote:
Originally Posted by KneedUrDough View Post
The average PF raise @ ur $2/$5 game is $20-$27? That's crazy!

Congrats on pulling six figures out the pockets of those rich farmers. Sounds like u neeeeeed nothing at all!
Hey KUD have you started planning your move to Texas yet?
Also if these farmers are so rich then why is it everytime i turn on the news they are talking about subsidies for the farmers because the economy is so bad and the farmers cant afford to feed themselves?
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:32 PM   #254
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Sorry for making the new thread, obviously I fail at the internets.

I was curious about a ceiling because I have played very little live cash, and I think I could make pretty close to whatever the ceiling is in Pittsburgh. I was curious if these games would be worth my time. Obviously I am running hot this week, but it has been very profitable. The play is so unbelievably atrocious, the ceiling has to be quite high. Not only is it easy to win big pots off of big made hands, but half of the players just tell me what they have - and not subtlety.
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:42 PM   #255
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by Pghfan987 View Post
Sorry for making the new thread, obviously I fail at the internets.

I was curious about a ceiling because I have played very little live cash, and I think I could make pretty close to whatever the ceiling is in Pittsburgh. I was curious if these games would be worth my time. Obviously I am running hot this week, but it has been very profitable. The play is so unbelievably atrocious, the ceiling has to be quite high. Not only is it easy to win big pots off of big made hands, but half of the players just tell me what they have - and not subtlety.
i think 25 for 1/2 and 45, maybe 50 for 2/5 would be 'ceiling' numbers (you must be a programmer, gawd)

those are pretty god-like winrates, you would have to have great table selection and/or access to very juicy games, and be very good.

this is based on some experience at 1/2 and what i've heard, and only hear-say for 2/5 since i have not played those stakes
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Old 09-26-2010, 04:03 AM   #256
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

What is the rake in PA? That will affect your win rate as well. And, comps also if you want to really get into it.
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:24 AM   #257
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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What is the rake in PA? That will affect your win rate as well. And, comps also if you want to really get into it.
The rake is 10% up to $5 for 1/3. I have no clue if that is high or low compared to Vegas/AC.

Comps are earned at $1 per hour.

I play HSMTTs online but I am starting to build a live cash game roll from scratch. The goal is to play 1/3 and 2/5 for a while to build a roll before moving to 5/10 and some shot taking in higher games that occasionally run. Everyone is just so bad so I am pretty excited about the possibilities.

Last edited by Pghfan987; 09-26-2010 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 09-26-2010, 01:14 PM   #258
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

That's pretty close to the Las Vegas rake. Seems like a good place.
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Old 09-26-2010, 01:50 PM   #259
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

hey guy's little question.
today i calculated my winrate for the last year:
assuming i play 35hands/hour i have 13BB/100 over 130hours @ 1/2NL
realistic or should i expect to go down a little bit the next time?
it's after rake but without expenses
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:38 PM   #260
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by Stoepsel View Post
hey guy's little question.
today i calculated my winrate for the last year:
assuming i play 35hands/hour i have 13BB/100 over 130hours @ 1/2NL
realistic or should i expect to go down a little bit the next time?
it's after rake but without expenses
130 hours is a very small sample size for live play. I'd say you need at least 500 hours before you have a realistic winrate.
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:09 AM   #261
Jihad
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Seen lots of "that's crazy" comments in this thread. Here's one for you to drool over...

My wife's September:
$7,617
55 hours
~$137/hr
All Florida 2/5
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Old 09-27-2010, 10:21 PM   #262
crsseyed
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by Stoepsel View Post
hey guy's little question.
today i calculated my winrate for the last year:
assuming i play 35hands/hour i have 13BB/100 over 130hours @ 1/2NL
realistic or should i expect to go down a little bit the next time?
it's after rake but without expenses
Congrats on your results, IMO it's just hard to say for the future.

Some things to consider: 130 hrs is a low amount, but what worries me is you did 130 hrs in 1 year. That's ~1-2 sessions a month so it's hard to estimate if your results will stay that way in the long run cause you play so sparingly.

Also to consider: Are your individual results/sessions pretty consistent or do they fluctuate wildly between huge losses and huge wins. If they fluctuate wildly your results are less predictable IMO.

It's still possible that these are realistic of course tho. My results are similar over the last ~700hrs. Keep maintaining records and playing your best each session/good luck.
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Old 09-27-2010, 11:58 PM   #263
Jarretman
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoepsel View Post
hey guy's little question.
today i calculated my winrate for the last year:
assuming i play 35hands/hour i have 13BB/100 over 130hours @ 1/2NL
realistic or should i expect to go down a little bit the next time?
it's after rake but without expenses
Each time you played was it a Thursday/Friday/Saturday night? 13BB/100 on a Friday isn't unreasonable at all and I'm sure more experienced people can verify this. 2 PM on Tuesday might not be so profitable.
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:14 PM   #264
jsaliba
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoepsel View Post
hey guy's little question.
today i calculated my winrate for the last year:
assuming i play 35hands/hour i have 13BB/100 over 130hours @ 1/2NL
realistic or should i expect to go down a little bit the next time?
it's after rake but without expenses
Not much more of a sample but my results are similar.

I have 15.5BB/100 over 250hrs trying to play mostly peak hours occasionally weekday or late night in AZ @ casino arizona playing 1/2.

My winrate should probably be just a little lower as I have not yet run KK into AA or had many sets hit vs. me. Seems like I'm running a bit above average in that respect.
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:31 PM   #265
Stoepsel
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
Each time you played was it a Thursday/Friday/Saturday night? 13BB/100 on a Friday isn't unreasonable at all and I'm sure more experienced people can verify this. 2 PM on Tuesday might not be so profitable.
yep, just playing on weekends, have to do other things during the week :-)
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:05 PM   #266
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by Stoepsel View Post
yep, just playing on weekends, have to do other things during the week :-)
Yeah that's most likely why you're making 15/hr or whatever that is. If you continue to play on weekends then I don't see why you can't maintain that.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:09 AM   #267
Mike Panic
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Short-term bankroll management for live NL advice

BRM is a hot topic for online players and after searching the forums, I didn't find a whole lot of advice for live players. I mostly play 1/2NL and buy in for max, or near max. I know it's impossible to say when the best time to get up from a table is, especially if it's well stacked and there are fish there, but looking for some advice on this to help build a smarter bankroll.

My question is: am I better off getting up from a table after making XX% profit from my buy-in, say 50%, 75% or even 100%, then getting up, cashing in, putting the profit in my pocket and re-buying in to the same (or different table) and starting a new session... OR... if I'm better off forgetting about the % profit I'm up and keep attacking the table and playing through with all the chips in play.

The third option would be to get up with the initial profits and just go home.

Looking for input.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:26 AM   #268
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Re: Short-term bankroll management for live NL advice

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Originally Posted by Mike Panic View Post
BRM is a hot topic for online players and after searching the forums, I didn't find a whole lot of advice for live players. I mostly play 1/2NL and buy in for max, or near max. I know it's impossible to say when the best time to get up from a table is, especially if it's well stacked and there are fish there, but looking for some advice on this to help build a smarter bankroll.

My question is: am I better off getting up from a table after making XX% profit from my buy-in, say 50%, 75% or even 100%, then getting up, cashing in, putting the profit in my pocket and re-buying in to the same (or different table) and starting a new session... OR... if I'm better off forgetting about the % profit I'm up and keep attacking the table and playing through with all the chips in play.

The third option would be to get up with the initial profits and just go home.

Looking for input.
So, you say this, then ask the question anyway?

The statement I highlighted is not true. It is very easy to say when the best time to get up from the table is. When you don't think you can win money in that game anymore (for whatever reason) or when there is a game on another table where you could win more. These aren't affected by bankroll.

Basically, your question seems to me like "I'm underolled, what is the best way to lessen my chances of going bust.

1. First you have to be beating the game, otherwise it doesn't matter
2. I'm not a maths guy so I can't do the risk of ruin situations but it seems to me logical that if you have 200 in you roll and double it, cashing out and rebuying another day with two buy-ins would leave you less chance of going broke.

However, I'd still doubt it is the correct play cause in this case you shouldn't be trying to avoid going broke because you basically don't have a roll yet. Just keep playing until you have one.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:41 AM   #269
Mike Panic
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Re: Short-term bankroll management for live NL advice

Quote:
So, you say this, then ask the question anyway?

The statement I highlighted is not true. It is very easy to say when the best time to get up from the table is. When you don't think you can win money in that game anymore (for whatever reason) or when there is a game on another table where you could win more. These aren't affected by bankroll.
Example: Last night I was up almost 50% and flopped top pair with no flush or straight draw and bet the flop turn and river, and my opponent hit a set on the river, a 2-outter. That's poker, I understand.

I'm also not underolled. I've been playing solid and have a nice roll, but I've had my ups and downs and looking for advice to continue with the ups in the most protected way possible for solid increases.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:43 AM   #270
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Re: Short-term bankroll management for live NL advice

I will put this as simply as i can. If you have 300 at the table you can stack somebody for 300. If you are a better player this is more likely than them stacking you so having 300 is better than having 50. Sometimes you will lose the 300. Do you understand this concept?
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:44 AM   #271
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Re: Short-term bankroll management for live NL advice

1) Short-term and bankroll management do not go together...

2) This will be moved to the bankroll management thread. You will find everything you need to know there.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:54 AM   #272
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Re: Short-term bankroll management for live NL advice

if the table is juicy and filled with deepstacked fishes and you are deepstacked (200bb+)
you should continue to stay there and double up and double up some more until the table is no longer juicy
only time you should thinking about leaving is when you are deepstacked and the deepstacks are better than you such as constantly applying pressure on you

deepstack is super hard to play especially against those that are aggressive
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:08 PM   #273
Mike Panic
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Re: Short-term bankroll management for live NL advice

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Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe View Post
1) Short-term and bankroll management do not go together...
OK - how about short-term bankroll building.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:49 PM   #274
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Re: Short-term bankroll management for live NL advice

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Originally Posted by Mike Panic View Post
OK - how about short-term bankroll building.
I prefer long-term. Essentially what you are asking is should I walk away when I have a certain amount of profit even if I was there 15 minutes correct?

A: Do whatever makes you feel good, but be warned you will be labeled as someone who hits and runs if you leave sessions on wins. If you're happy though, whatever. Personally I dont like playing for less than 6 hours. And really I would like to play for more at a time.
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:04 AM   #275
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

i had this same problem. i was almost broke at one point. but i just learn to quit games to build my roll. i would get up 200$-300$ or so, and just quit the game and go back. while building a roll, i think its ok to not play deep. i did this for about a month and made about 7k. after i built my roll up. i would start playing deep.

right now i play 1/2 at winstar world casino in OK
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