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Old 08-31-2010, 01:22 PM   #226
dhg223
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Its nice to lose 5 buyins in two days and only have it knock your hourly from $39 to $32. Volume ftw
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Old 08-31-2010, 02:01 PM   #227
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by sushiparlour View Post
Have a question regarding bankroll.

Currently my bankroll is ~$1000 which is basically a result of my winnings at $1/2 and I've been buying in for $100 per game i.e. playing small stack. I've seen a lot on this forum advocating playing with a larger stack (so I can play some 'proper poker') but with my current bank roll is this too much of a stretch?
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Originally Posted by mercuryPoison View Post
You are underrolled for 1/2, no doubt about it.
I understand that I am under rolled even if I play short stack ($100). But just wondering if it is more advisable, with my bankroll, to try to buy in for $200 and play a more proper game of poker or just simply buy in at the min. which at my casino is $100.
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Old 08-31-2010, 02:15 PM   #228
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I have a question regarding playing with 1-2 buyins in my roll at a time. Is it possible for me to lose 6 buyins at 2/3 $100 cap and still be a winning player? Instead of building a roll I just kept playing with my leftover paycheck at the end of the week for 1 maybe 2 buyins and I lose it everytime.

It seems like I always get my money in good except for coolers like TPTK vs set 33bb deep, so at first I thought it was variance, then I actually calculated the EV of my all in hands and I'm only like 2 buyins below EV. This doesn't make any sense to me how can I be down 6 buyins but only 2 buyins below EV? Usually I'll double up against a flush draw, then lose a flip or something and I'll be at close to neutral EV but down money.

I feel like I'm playing good too, I pretty much gave up bluffing because you can't bluff a 30bb stack and I always get my money in good or flipping but I just can't build a roll because at some point I'll be all in for $300 with my whole roll on the table and lose. The way you guys describe the game though I should have broken out and been able to build up a roll by now.
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Old 08-31-2010, 02:17 PM   #229
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushiparlour View Post
I understand that I am under rolled even if I play short stack ($100). But just wondering if it is more advisable, with my bankroll, to try to buy in for $200 and play a more proper game of poker or just simply buy in at the min. which at my casino is $100.
If it is easily replenshiable (by a job or w/e) then buy in max. If it is not, then short buy until ~2500. If its the last of your bankroll go find a .25/.50 or .50/1home game. In fact with your bankroll, playing in any stake home game with no rake is probably the best solution as no money is leaving the table.
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Old 08-31-2010, 02:32 PM   #230
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.boxer View Post
I have a question regarding playing with 1-2 buyins in my roll at a time. Is it possible for me to lose 6 buyins at 2/3 $100 cap and still be a winning player? Instead of building a roll I just kept playing with my leftover paycheck at the end of the week for 1 maybe 2 buyins and I lose it everytime.

It seems like I always get my money in good except for coolers like TPTK vs set 33bb deep, so at first I thought it was variance, then I actually calculated the EV of my all in hands and I'm only like 2 buyins below EV. This doesn't make any sense to me how can I be down 6 buyins but only 2 buyins below EV? Usually I'll double up against a flush draw, then lose a flip or something and I'll be at close to neutral EV but down money.

I feel like I'm playing good too, I pretty much gave up bluffing because you can't bluff a 30bb stack and I always get my money in good or flipping but I just can't build a roll because at some point I'll be all in for $300 with my whole roll on the table and lose. The way you guys describe the game though I should have broken out and been able to build up a roll by now.
The structure you have described sounds like it would be tough to beat playing short. Too much money is leaving the table relative to the average stack.
If you are trying to build a roll for long term, then if you buy in for $100 and triple to $300, leave. The game will be there again, and you are risking too much at one time. That structure seems to eliminate some of the edge you would otherwise have, although to be honest, I think you are overestimating your edge somewhat and trying to play a short stack live game like it is online.
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:11 PM   #231
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Originally Posted by AcePlayerDeluxe View Post
If it is easily replenshiable (by a job or w/e) then buy in max. If it is not, then short buy until ~2500. If its the last of your bankroll go find a .25/.50 or .50/1home game. In fact with your bankroll, playing in any stake home game with no rake is probably the best solution as no money is leaving the table.
I am buying in max.
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:03 PM   #232
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

I wasn't sure if this belonged in the bankroll/finances thread or not as my question is more about playing style and whether playing style should be influenced by being underrolled.

I have been a recreational player for a long time and mostly did not play with a roll. Only recently did I make a decision to track wins/losses and make a conscious decision to separate my poker finances. I found I was often (not always) playing a more conservative and presumably lower variance style since beginning this.

Over the course of a month I ground up about a $1600 roll playing $1/2. My goal was to get it to $3K before opening my game up a little more and ultimately figure on maintaining a $4kish roll and then start dabbling in $2/5.

Anyway, week 5 of my mission didn't go so well. I ran pretty bad for 4 straight sessions and bustoe'd my meager roll. So I am back at it but my question is this:

Those of you who built a roll from scratch, did you just play your same game always or did you tighten up while you didn't have enough to cover the swings?

Is it correct to take a more conservative playing style approach (not entirely - but a lot of fit or fold etc.) while building up a roll from nothing?

I know that during the last month there were spots where I likely left profits on the table in favor of taking the lower variance line. Obviously being under rolled I am not actively seeking 52/48 preflop coinflips but I noticed in raise or fold spots I was leaning toward the fold and consequently tending to avoid those spots by only seeking fairly fat value on the river etc.

I took a week off of poker and plan to get back at it this weekend. I am thinking that I am going to try and just take my old recreational approach and just throw my winnings in my little cash box and not count it for a while.
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Old 09-06-2010, 08:23 AM   #233
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Quick question about varience... What sort of sample (hours) would you say is reliable to figure out if you are beating a game?

I have 200 hours recorded and in the first 100 made 1700bb and the second 100 breaking even. The second 100 hours are in a new club - I moved areas, the game feels even softer than before though, I feel I still have an edge and the rake is lower than my old place!
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:32 AM   #234
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

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Quick question about varience... What sort of sample (hours) would you say is reliable to figure out if you are beating a game?

I have 200 hours recorded and in the first 100 made 1700bb and the second 100 breaking even. The second 100 hours are in a new club - I moved areas, the game feels even softer than before though, I feel I still have an edge and the rake is lower than my old place!
i'd give it at least a few hundred more. ~1k hours is probably a good sample size to really assess anything

your feeling about the game is also a strong indicator though. if you perceive a big edge and have just been running bad, definitely keep playing!
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:31 PM   #235
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Curious, what's a typical BR of live 2/5 grinders?? Those who play 2/5 for a living, and nothing else... Is 20K/40-buy-ins on aggressive side?
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Old 09-17-2010, 04:46 PM   #236
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Re: *** Official Winrates, bankrolls, and finances ***

Depends on how good you are, and what you count as your roll (online roll counts?) FWIW I started with an insanely small br when transitioning to live.

Honestly I don't think you need a thousand hours to tell whether you're a winning player. If you're a winning player online you're a winning player live. To accurately gauge your winrate, it's impossible also as it depends so much on the quality of the game you play in. I think using your own knowledge to assess is better.
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:43 PM   #237
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The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

I am not thinking about becoming a live LS pro or anything, but since I wandered into the casino for the first time since Vegas I was wondering for anyone who has played a ton of 1/2, 1/3, 2/4, or 2/5 live cash, what your hourly rate is. I know I sound like a newb because I don't play much live cash, but the people in the Pittsburgh casino were epicly terrible. I am not interested in some random's hot streak over a 10 hour period, I am curious about people who actually grind consistently for supplemental income.
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:46 PM   #238
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

over 3 years and 8 months overall average is 31.12$ playing 1/2.

2/5 is just under 80 at 79.64$

not big enough sample size imo for 5/10 so not gunna bother posting it.


EDIT: this data is mixed home games/casino
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:47 PM   #239
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

This needs to be moved to the Bankroll thread.
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Old 09-24-2010, 02:30 PM   #240
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slimdog11 View Post
over 3 years and 8 months overall average is 31.12$ playing 1/2.

2/5 is just under 80 at 79.64$

not big enough sample size imo for 5/10 so not gunna bother posting it.


EDIT: this data is mixed home games/casino
this needs to be moved to fantasy land lol
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Old 09-24-2010, 02:45 PM   #241
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

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this needs to be moved to fantasy land lol
I believe him. People are so, so, so unimaginably bad.
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Old 09-24-2010, 03:00 PM   #242
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

those seem slightly ludicrous

OP, there have been lots of threads like this. you will always get different responses from different people. from what i remember of reading a shyt ton of these threads is the consensus is that 1/2 winrates are usually around 15/hr if you're good, 20 if you're very good. 2/5 are 25-30 if you're good, 35+ if you're very good.

that sound about right? it's always gonna vary depending on the games you play in and when and all, but those are decent ballparks i think
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Old 09-24-2010, 03:12 PM   #243
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

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Originally Posted by 8o8 View Post
those seem slightly ludicrous

OP, there have been lots of threads like this. you will always get different responses from different people. from what i remember of reading a shyt ton of these threads is the consensus is that 1/2 winrates are usually around 15/hr if you're good, 20 if you're very good. 2/5 are 25-30 if you're good, 35+ if you're very good.

that sound about right? it's always gonna vary depending on the games you play in and when and all, but those are decent ballparks i think
This sums it up and should be the end of the thread.
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:36 PM   #244
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$79.64 per/h
25h per/wk
48wks per/yr

79.64 * 25 * 48 = $95568 per/yr

~$100K per/yr... Where do I sign up?

(~16bb per/h & ~55bb/100hands)

Last edited by KneedUrDough; 09-24-2010 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:46 PM   #245
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

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this needs to be moved to fantasy land lol
I laughed at his posted winrates too. Absolutely comical. $31 @ 1/2 NL is an exaggerated figure, but not by a ton, since everyone on this site claims to make $20-$25 hourly there. His $79.64 figure for 2/5 is a joke though. Assuming decent length sessions you're talking about averaging well over a buy in per session.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:44 PM   #246
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

People tend to overexaggerate their hourly. Either they the sample size is lol or they are picking an arbritrary lenght of time starting convinently right as a big upswing happened.

That said, people who put a cap on hourly are also being unreasonable. There was a couple of months where I played in a 1-3 game where everybody except me and usually 1 other person straddled every hand along with plenty of double and triple straddles, and average stack was about $800. Hourly is going to be insanely high for a 1-3 game like this where stakes are basically doubled with me not posting the blinds.

Capping a possible hourly at 10BBs is silly. There is no limit on how soft a game can be.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:58 PM   #247
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

When people talk about hourly they are usually discussing this over the course of a long time.

Sure I could sit into a game get aces vs kings all in preflop, quit the next hand and claim that my hourly is $300 x 60 because I made 300 in this one minute.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:48 PM   #248
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

Dynamics of the game do have a major impact, especially for rec players like myself who can play premium time slots only. In the no cap 1/2 game I play, my winrate is ridiculously high. I also can only play weekends. I often play at a capped game during the week, and although I win there, my winrate is well below the other.
Home games are a whole other kettle of fish.
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:00 PM   #249
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

The game you play (how bad the opponents are) in makes a huge difference. 3-4 years ago, if a really good player told me he averaged ~30/hr at 1-2 at Foxwoods I likely would have believed him. Today, very unlikely I would.
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Old 09-25-2010, 05:47 PM   #250
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Re: The best hourly rate for low stakes NL live cash

I play in college station Texas.

Bunch of rich farmers who like to come out and get drunk.

It plays bigger. Avg raise preflop is 20-27

And no reason to exaggerate... Who cares? Like seriously. I neeeeeed a self esteem pad! Plz?
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