It depends on the game. I've played a 1/2 in Florida that was 500 max and then match the stack where everyone would just shove the first hand so they could rebuy at 4k. I didn't have a ton of hours there but I think my winrate would be >50bb/hr if I lived there.

Im at 13bb/hr at 2/5 1k max over my first 1200 hours since I switched from 99% online to 95% live play 8 months ago. And 5bb/hr at 5T 3k max (better players and I've only got around 500 hrs so not sure what it actually will be. Average stack is also only about 150bb usually)

If it was 500 max I doubt I could hit 10bb/hr.

It's more about the average stack and open sizes than the blinds

Indeed, but I need to update my stats.

My live roll complaints can now end!

big chips in the front please. lol

wheres a 1-2 game in florida thats match the stacks? all the ones i seen were 300 or 200 max, usually 50 min. never seen one with a 500 max buyin except for 1-2 plo

Northern Florida is full of them, especially at the greyhound track rooms.

Is that your entire live roll on the table? Nice score.

IMO Pstars MI is so soft it's probably worth putting in 100% of your volume online. I think you could realistically make close to $100/h off a $3600 roll with fairly little risk, and that's not the ceiling.

This, except without the lol.

EDIT: Sorry about the double post; the first attempt hung for minutes and then returned an Error 503.

I don't play hold 'em nearly as much as I used to. I stopped studying and started to plateau and ran meh over the last 500+ hours or so, so I switched to the dark side.

I don't know of many published live five-card/PLO5 winrates, so here's mine. Your mileage may vary.

7.5 bb/hr over 1,600 hours in my main game ($1/$2 with $5 bring-in which I count as $5 bb game), closer to 5 bb/hr. in the $5/$5/$15 which I am starting to play more frequently these days (but small sample).



For those who say it's just bingo and impossible to beat. Just sayin'. And my sample includes a fair amount of spew during my downswings/upswings.

I hope more card rooms spread this game, it's so juicy! Will keep hold 'em in the mix for the occasional change of pace. It's just so fun to flop top set and the nut flush draw in the same hand!

I have a really hard time believing this. Are you arguing that stars MI is sister softer than 2/5 live?

10NL probably softer than 2|5 live. 30NL+ probably not. You can get like 15-20x the volume online though. $3600 you should be playing 100NL, or 200NL if you want to be aggressive.

$100/h is probably a bit much for 100NL, but I think is likely reasonable for 200NL. That's only 10BB/100 at 500 hands/hour. I'm on a short roll myself and haven't played 200NL at all yet so I probably shouldn't be making these claims, but I don't think I've ever seen softer games online.

Probably an easier claim to defend would be: No matter what your roll is you have higher profit potential online than live if you live in Michigan. The games are extremely soft and it probably won't last so get in on the action while it does.

browni is very smart and knows what he’s taking about, but I highly disagree with him here.

I think you need closer to a $36,000 roll (exclusively for poker) to make that kind of money in true EV p/h even in the softest online games following good brm assuming you’re pretty good

lots of ifs there

reason being is you’ll probably need (depending on several factors) the entire $3,600 in action when you’re playing. And hopefully that’s a small % of your overall roll.

and my guess is you would need to be mixing in mid steaks as well on top of that almost undoubtedly unless you only play peak times

just my 2c though obv stars Michigan is nutted bc it’s a segregated pool

even the apps and what not are international pools so significantly tougher

Win rate is a very big component of RoR. I think $36k would be pretty reasonable for something like 500NL for traditionally "tough" online games. Softer games need substantially less to maintain a similar amount of short/medium-term risk.

18 BI for 200NL is obviously very aggressive but reasonable for shot-taking a soft game if you're willing to move back down when you don't do well. You're right you can end up with a lot of $ in action but it's probably better to play less tables while using a high-risk BRM strategy.

With all that said I'll admit I'm being very optimistic here and don't have evidence to back up my opinions (yet).

In a very small sample I’m beating 100NL for 10bb/100 ~8 tables.

It’s probably better online RIGHT NOW, but I enjoy live games and the fish at the casino aren’t going anywhere.

In a very small sample I’m beating 100NL for 10bb/100 ~8 tables.

It’s probably better online RIGHT NOW, but I enjoy live games and the fish at the casino aren’t going anywhere.

I’m no expert, but stars michigan probably makes up less than a few % of total online poker traffic even just in the us

how the games are there rn is not representative of much

another thing you have to account for is rake paid obv. It equals/exceeds winnings for most regs (let alone everyone)

I’ve been paying over $100/hr in rake online for example

Rake is definitely disgusting. I think I calculated. At double live rake at 100NL. Less the higher you go. The smallest micros might be unbeatable for many for no other reason.

Do you guys think hit and running is smart for a new player?

Yes. In certain games, it's smart for advanced players too.

In a nutshell: no. Mostly its gonn stagnate your development as a player, and you dont accomplish much really by hitting and running.

That said, you can be smart when making quit decisions in a certain game. If you are up a couple of buyins and feel that you cant play your game cause the money matters too much- yeah sure, cashout and book a win.

But sooner or later you got to challenge yourself and keep playing in order to be better at deepstackplay for example. So what i am getting at really, is that hit and run is a very shortsighted approach.

For a new player, where implementing a solid strategy with a shortstack is much easier to do / understand than implementing a solid strategy with a deepstack (which is simply much more difficult to do), it is probably a good idea. Even a common recommendation for experienced players moving up in stakes is to BI short and play a shortstack strategy while they get their feet wet. Once you get some experience under you belt, then obviously do whatever you want.

However, even in a casino environment you should probably do your best to not get a bad rep by hit and running once you double up from your short BI. One way of doing this is moving to a smaller stacked table (where amongst smaller stacks you'll still be an effectively short stack); some rooms may even have rules that force you to rathole when moving tables (thus bringing yourself back down to a shortstack within the rules). At the very least I would recommend playing a couple of more orbits after the double up so as to not make the hit and run as obvious.

GcluelessshortstackingnoobG

Like GG said don't make it painfully obvious like the second you win the pot. Wait an orbit or two, like a person of character, or until the end of the down.

When you lack experience you really need to focus on amassing a bankroll because chances are you aren't particularly good and will just get stacked by better players eventually. So book the wins when they come and keep learning.

Once you think you have a better grasp of the game you can play longer sessions.

hit and running is a great idea for a bad/losing player. That’s why we hate it!

Hit and run no.

Book a win when on a short bank roll yes.

Others have articulated why you should or shouldn’t pick up but the main reason really should be BR preservation. If you aren’t fully rolled for the game and you don’t have a huge edge then book it and come back with a normal stack.

I'm currently on a huge heater, not sure if I should call it that.

I've played 8 sessions in a 1/1 home game and won every single time.
Played for around 40 hours total.
Winning at 25/hour, which seems insane for a 1/1 game.

I'm not sure what to expect.
I realize 40 hours is a tiny sample.

Yet I don't feel like I'm running hot or anything.
I'm mostly just playing bingo and getting paid of.

Is this standard?
The people in my games are terrible, none of them have done any studying.

I'm quite experienced, but I feel like 50% of my poker knowledge doesn't apply in these games and I end up just playing bingo all night long and getting paid.