+1

Nope, we are talking from years of experience and actual knowledge on this topic. But i guess we are fighting windmills, because obviously you guys are not looking to listen.

When you listen to very experienced succesfull livepros from all over the world, the importance of how to interract and treat big whales is something that they keep mentioning over and over again. And its understandable, cause some people (even on 2+2 where this kind of stuff gets debated regurarly) STILL doesent get it.

This isnt about what you usually does when it comes to seat changing. Its about knowing that alot of seat changing or any predatory behaviour like Feel Wrath also mentioned (for whatever reason you have in your own head for seat changing, doesent matter) in worst case scenario can contribute to pissing off a big whale that is ready to dump money into the game, and get him to leave. I have seen it more times than i can count,and it pisses me off.

Last time it happend, was at Harrahs in Vegas. Drinking whale have been sunrunning and ran his $300 buyin up to about $2000. This is a 1/2 game. This is late at night, we are sitting 5 handed with this guy who is ready to dump it all to us. He is drinking, straddling, playing every hand dealt and whatnot. Smart hoodie grinder with zero social intelligence seat changes to the left of whale. At this point 3 of us have the drinks going with whale and he seems to forget about leaving. But when smartass headphone grinder seat changes, he asks him instantly if he moved seat to get to his left instead, and is visibly pissed off. Grinder responds by pissing whale even more off, by responsing in a rude way that he can sit in whatever seat he wants. Whale instantly fires back: "Alright then, i can do whatever i want too, i am gonna cashout my money and leave".

Nice freaking work, and a prime example of what this is all about. Can you imagine the EV we all lost in that spot? Like playing a huge whale shorthanded who plays every hand dealt with a 1000 BB stack. Clueless behaviour from average regs, that have zero idea about how to treat their customers and losing players in the game that want to have fun while losing- instead of feeling like a small bird where a full table of sniper rifles sitting ready to kill him.

You want losing players to feel comfortable and have fun. If you think you can seat switch without affecting this, go for it. Not being able to see properly or wanting to see a TV are the best excuses for this. If you’re under 30 and say that it’s your lucky seat you’re not fooling anyone. Lots of the biggest losers are intelligent and enjoy playing, irrespective of the results. They might want a talkative game and if so, give it then. If they seem to be quiet and reserved, don’t engage them in conversation.

I’d taken a break from live play until recently and it’s alarming how many supposed regs don’t get this simple concept. One rot reg berated how a fish played a hand and used the phrase ‘balancing his calling range’ in a sarcastic tone. The player in question was long gone but I saw two other big losing players at the table react negatively and both left within minutes.


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Swapping seats to get position on a whale, while not being a dick about it is higher EV than not doing so, and having worse position at the table, simply because you think you'll scare them off some minute % of the time. Ainec imo. That's all I'm saying.

Ive been playing close to full time for a little over 2 years now so I have plenty of live experience also. Im not arguing that 2-3 pros switching seats constantly every time a new guy sits down is bad for the game.

Im saying I never see that happen where I play.
Im saying there are very few clueless whales dumping money where I play.
Im saying I wish my games were this good that I needed to worry about this stuff.

Swapping seats to get position on a whale itself IS a dick move, why can't you understand that? You are being incredibly short sighted if you think this is a +EV move.

Being in ANY seat with a whale at the table is +EV if you know what you're doing. If you are in seat 1, the whale is in seat 3 and some pro in seat 4 is constantly abusing the whale with ISO raises, there are ways to take advantage of that yourself from seat 1.

If you move to seat 5 to get position and then the pro leap frogs you to seat 6 to get position, then there's going to be a problem and the whale or other players might get uncomfortable

One seat change now and then by anyone is normal and happens at every table everywhere.

Now can we get back to winrates, bankroll and finances before we all get jacked up by the mods?

I'm more straddling the fence on this one.

Obviously be very respectful of whales and fish (and all players, for that matter).

But table hopping / seat changing is a totally accepted part of the game in a casino environment (our room is one constant musical table/chairs game, but as others have mentioned a lot of people ain't doing it for strategy purposes although clearly some are). Just don't be a douche about doing it and do it with as much tact / good nature as you can, while also keeping the current vibe plus long term in mind.

Gyoucanactuallyhaveyourcakeandeatittoo,ifyoudoitri ght,imoG

Obv this. +1

My good table change story:

Older whale is about to sit down in one of 2 open seats. 3 regs immediately ask for the other open seat, which is 2 to his left. Floor makes them draw for the seat. One reg wins and moves to the new seat. Whale says "eff all of you I'm taking the seat he just had." He ends up with position on all of them. He proceeds to go on a massive heater and just destroys all 3 of them for at least a couple buy-ins each over the next 2-2.5 hours. He then racks up and he chews them out for being dicks trying to have position on them every time he sits down.

I lost half a buy-in that night, but it was awesome to watch.

back to your regular WR thread...

Yup, this derail has run it's course. Knock it off now.

Great story.

*cool story

I like to sit to sit in seat 8, because I can see all the players + I can keep an eye on the dealer & make sure he doesn't over rake, especially when a reduced rake is in effect. I don't care about anything else..........hell, even Squid Face can sit on my left..........every 6th session.........

In 5 years I don't think I've ever changed seats for strategy purposes.

I do, however, change seats very regularly to get away from smelly people or people who want to talk about cryptocurrency.

Crypto is changing the world bro

If your need to seat switch outweighs the shame associated with it you probably need to work on your game.

Maybe I wasn't clear above. Seat changing discussion in this thread is over. Future posts on the topic will be at least deleted and may bring an infraction.

lol now the thread is quiet for four days

We just wanna talk about seattt changgginggg maannnnn

Nice knowing ya...

Just dug out of my record-tying downswing at 1/3 NL, here's some giraffes for laffs.

Kinda remarkable how similar both of them were.

Both downswings were for exactly $2866.

First one started at the 1774 hour mark. The second one started almost exactly the same time later, at the 3565 hour mark.

Both bottomed out on fun little 3-7 session stretches, the first over 79 hours, the second over 76 hours.

From going into to finally getting back to even, the first one 24 sessions over 194 hours, the second one 29 sessions over 200 hours.

First one:



Second one:




Or, how I made $1,344 over 394 hours without even really trying.

Genquirewithinregardingmycoachingrates,ldoG

I apologize in advance as I don't frequent this thread much at all and my question is probably answered many times within, but here goes:

I've been playing 1/2 for about 7 years and am experiencing my worst downswing by a longshot. I truly believe I am actually playing the best poker of my life but want to do a sanity check to see if my results could just be negative variance or if the evidence would say I'm mostly likely not playing well.

Last July I had brief period where I didn't have to work and played 55 hours over 2 weeks, winning $2400. Since then I have played 80 hours and am down $1800. I'm assuming the 80 hours is close to statistically meaningless? Is this right?

Yup.

80 hours is nothing:



If you dig back through the thread I explain this figure a bit more, but it basically looks at every session I've recorded, pulls the 100 previous hours, and calculates the winrate based on that sample.

You're running at about -$22.5/hr over your downswing. A little on the low side of the distributions I have there for $1/2NL, but not horribly out of range.


God help you if you start playing PLO. I'm down about $1600 this month in about 80 hours of play this year. Had at least 3 big multiway hands that would have flipped the month to almost break even on their own if they'd either hit the wrap or held up against a wrap.