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Old Yesterday, 09:57 PM   #1
Dtrain555
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1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

TTc
265 eff

V is maniac, good, but spewy. He loves to put people to the test at any chance

A couple people limp
He raises to 20 in lp (large raise, havenít seen him do it before)

I 3 bet to 50
I could size it up, I donít want to see a flop oop against him, but it seems -EV to increase my sizing with hands that I donít want to see a flop with and Iím not very deep

He flats
Pot 100

Flop 7c8c9c
I think I have a range advantage so
I bet 40 and he overbet jams

I have 175 pot is 355

I havenít ran this through poker stove, but I think mathematically this is a call

Thoughts?
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Old Yesterday, 10:20 PM   #2
cannabusto
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

If V is truly a maniac, then you are far and away ahead of his LP raising range. You need to size up. You're OOP and will benefit from a smaller SPR in this spot to lessen your positional disadvantage. When you say spewy, do you mean he will 4bet AK no question? What about AQ or medium pairs? Air? You need to try to range him if he shoves. I wouldn't fold TT to a shove against some maniacs I've encountered.

On the flop, I don't even get what you're worried about. I see that flop and think "Commit." Just bet/call this flop all day.
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Old Yesterday, 10:37 PM   #3
ImAllInNow
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

Referring to someone as a good maniac is basically an oxymoron. They can be good and super-aggressive, but that doesn't make them a maniac.

You don't mention your position, but I assume you're in the blinds since you bet first on the flop?

You should be sizing bigger out of position regardless of your hand (because you don't want to see a flop OOP with any hand really). You should be making it about $65-$70.

On that flop, I would probably check. We have a marginal pair and a huge draw so we don't mind giving away free cards and we can induce bluffs, but betting here can't be bad.

When he shoves, this is an easy easy call. Even if he has AAx you're just about correct odds to call and he can have many overpairs that don't necessarily have to have a club. He could have AKx too which you are in good shape against.
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Old Today, 09:27 AM   #4
hyperknit
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

Snap call.

I like the whole hand, u donít want to put too much more than 20% of your stack in pre for a 3b pretty much ever, so it is a bit awkward but I think 50 pre is fine.

On the flop I like a small cbet with our whole range here, at least theoretically. Now vs this particular opponent u can prob c/f some of your weakest air but still we should be betting with a large amount of our range since our 3b range is so strong here anyways.

Also I donít want to bet too large revealing that we are committed to the hand. Heís a maniac and he likes to bluff, and he likes to make bluffs that he believes will work, so donít bet too large and take that play away from him.
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Old Today, 09:29 AM   #5
hyperknit
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImAllInNow View Post
Referring to someone as a good maniac is basically an oxymoron. They can be good and super-aggressive, but that doesn't make them a maniac.


Disagree. Sometimes there are great players who play lower and just kind of spew, especially pre and on the flop. But then they are great hand readers and have a huge edge on turns and rivers.
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Old Today, 09:30 AM   #6
MikeStarr
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

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Originally Posted by hyperknit View Post
Snap call.

I like the whole hand, u donít want to put too much more than 20% of your stack in pre for a 3b pretty much ever, so it is a bit awkward but I think 50 pre is fine.

On the flop I like a small cbet with our whole range here, at least theoretically. Now vs this particular opponent u can prob c/f some of your weakest air but still we should be betting with a large amount of our range since our 3b range is so strong here anyways.

Also I donít want to bet too large revealing that we are committed to the hand. Heís a maniac and he likes to bluff, and he likes to make bluffs that he believes will work, so donít bet too large and take that play away from him.
Huh? Ill have to disagree with this.
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Old Today, 10:32 AM   #7
Chunkamunk
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtrain555 View Post
TTc
265 eff

V is maniac, good, but spewy. He loves to put people to the test at any chance

A couple people limp
He raises to 20 in lp (large raise, havenít seen him do it before)

I 3 bet to 50
I could size it up, I donít want to see a flop oop against him, but it seems -EV to increase my sizing with hands that I donít want to see a flop with and Iím not very deep

He flats
Pot 100

Flop 7c8c9c
I think I have a range advantage so
I bet 40 and he overbet jams

I have 175 pot is 355

I havenít ran this through poker stove, but I think mathematically this is a call

Thoughts?
Politely asking, If you feel he is a tricky player, why are we 3betting so small? He is more than likely to call and you are now guaranteed to play the hand OOP in a bloated pot. Also you said you have yet to see him raise so large PF but still feel 3betting TT is the right play?

As played I fold, we're only beating AcKx or AxKc and we're only a 3-2 favorite against those hands. The OESFD is sexy, but it shrinks up a ton if he has an over pair with a club.

If you're comfortable flipping for stacks, calling isn't awful, but personally I try to reduce my variance these days.
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Old Today, 12:46 PM   #8
Dtrain555
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

So most people agree, call the raise and size up pre.

That being said, do I really want to bet this flop?
It is a monotone board, which I probably check with the majority of my range.
I have a drawing hand.
Would he have more bluffs if I check to him? I think so.

Also, I think the fact that he didnít four bet is a moot point now.

Because of the board texture he can have quite a few combos of the nut flush so the fact that he shouldnít have QQ+ doesnít mean much, right?
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Old Today, 12:49 PM   #9
hyperknit
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

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Originally Posted by MikeStarr View Post
Huh? Ill have to disagree with this.


U could get up to 25% is fine but any more than that and u start getting pot commited to call off with any 2 cards and then itís better to just go all in
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Old Today, 01:25 PM   #10
Ragequit99
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

Grunch

Preflop just call or make it a proper 3bet to around a pot sized raise - $65. Do the same with all your 3bets OOP including QQ+

As played on flop - not sure why you believe you have a range advantage - is this just because villain is so loose? Because this board would usually be considered better for an IP call-3bet range than OOP 3bet range.

As it is you're lucky to have the actual hand you do. I would check since most of my 3bet range wants to check this board. I'm happy X/calling or X/raising depending on read on Villain's flop bet.

As played I'm calling flop. We can be ahead anyway and if we're not we've got good equity against everything apart from a flopped flush >= J high. Villain is a maniac so I expect to be winning this hand a lot more than I would against the average player.
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Old Today, 01:28 PM   #11
Chunkamunk
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtrain555 View Post
Because of the board texture he can have quite a few combos of the nut flush so the fact that he shouldnít have QQ+ doesnít mean much, right?
As you have described Villain, I don't see why he couldn't have AA-QQ.
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Old Today, 02:07 PM   #12
answer20
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

You could be anywhere from 6 (JcTx/flush)-66% (AcKx) here .. I'm not sure where the happy medium is against this opponent. Were you trying to blocker bet the Flop? All this may do is piss off a maniac/tester and now you are facing the all-in! Players like this like to lead the action. They are also very good at looking like they don't have a plan when they really do have a plan ... like raising to a number they haven't used before.

That being said I don't know if this is an automatic 3-bet spot since it will alert the V that we are pretty strong here and 'maybe' he adjusts his play. If you do 3-bet we don't need to go too much higher ... $60 give him $40 to call into $40ish but I don't really mind the $50 either since it stills feigns some weakness and allows us to get away from a shove if that's what we choose to do.

You suggest that his opening range is wide and he likes putting pressure on opponents, but then we have him opening 'large' and shoving. Just because a Player looks sloppy doesn't mean that they are sloppy when pots get bigger, unless you have some history/proof of this.

We are only crushed by made flushes at this point .. the rest of the time we are 30-60% so this should be a call getting 2 to 1, but even against an overpair with a naked club we are close enough to call this off. GL
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Old Today, 02:09 PM   #13
donkfish mcbusto
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

Ez call. The only hand you don't have good equity against is exactly like AK or AQcc or JJc. Against all his other over pairs (even if they have a club) and flopped sets youre even or ahead on equity. Especially against a maniac I'm not folding here ever.

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Old Today, 03:04 PM   #14
mrdestiny
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

Raise bigger pre, bet flop bigger. This is an easy bet-call. I don't really see how you having a "range advantage" is relevant to this hand, and you probably don't have much of one if at all on this kind of a flop. Another note is that he is probably taxing the limpers with his $20 raise.

Thoughts, hand is not very tricky given stack depth and villain-type. Unlucky if you lose the hand, not much you can do AP.
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Old Today, 03:08 PM   #15
cannabusto
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragequit99 View Post
Grunch

Preflop just call or make it a proper 3bet to around a pot sized raise - $65. Do the same with all your 3bets OOP including QQ+

As played on flop - not sure why you believe you have a range advantage - is this just because villain is so loose? Because this board would usually be considered better for an IP call-3bet range than OOP 3bet range.

As it is you're lucky to have the actual hand you do. I would check since most of my 3bet range wants to check this board. I'm happy X/calling or X/raising depending on read on Villain's flop bet.

As played I'm calling flop. We can be ahead anyway and if we're not we've got good equity against everything apart from a flopped flush >= J high. Villain is a maniac so I expect to be winning this hand a lot more than I would against the average player.
Agree this is a check in theory, but I like betting here since villain has a ton of broadway cards in his range and would often just shove a hand like AcKx or AxKc. Also denies equity to random hand in his range like QJs that have several outs going to the turn.
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Old Today, 03:11 PM   #16
Ragequit99
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Re: 1/2 TT OOP vs Maniac

I was a bit torn because I expect maniac villain is way looser than normal so we perhaps can bet more often than normal.

But at the same time because he's an aggro maniac we can expect him to bet when checked to and that's likely to get us value from the widest possible range of hands against this particular villain type.

Bet or check on flop is ok though I think.
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