Usually it takes a year or so for this complaint to come up. There's been a bunch of posts in the micro forum complaining about the quality of posts for years. Such is life in the lowest level of play forum. The indication that there isn't much learning going on though is disturbing.

Yeah, there's a fine balance to be struck. People don't post good strat at the lowest levels because, well, they are playing the lowest levels. Then they get better and move up in forums where they also don't post good strat because its super double secret. All leading to an overall bland forum experience.

It always has been, and always will be, a game of sorting the wheat from the chaff.

I've recently discovered LLNL, been mostly lurking for a couple of weeks but have started posting here and there. I disagree with anyone who thinks that no learning is going on here. I'm not a Supreme Donkey Crusher WSOP cash machine like KurtSF yet, but so far I've been able to ignore most of the chaff and get a lot of good info out of my short time here.

The reports of LLNL's death have been greatly exaggerated.

I think what is happening is that people are getting scared to post what they really think about a hand because some people may not agree with them, and losing internet cred >> learning how to play the freaking game...

What is happening now is either

1) Somene posts a hand with a fairly obvious answer. One person gives a response, which while correct, is like answering a simple math problem. Everyone else goes +1 or this or whatever, and no-one, other then maybe the OP, learns anything

or

2) OP makes a hero call at improbable odds, defends his "soulread" rather then accept the help... Again, no progress

3) Someone posts a question that is quite tough, i.e my KK hand OOP on a really wet board. No-one really answers because they dont want to look dumb, and as such, we dont learn anything...

Overall, its just growing pains I think, and the board without a doubt has a future, but IMO more basic concept threads, such as the COTM, would go a long way to make a more productive forum...

I think the biggest problem here are double digit posters giving advice like they were Doyle ****ing Brunson.

I've got no problem with anyone giving advice; that's what we're here for. Its when they start calling anyone who disagrees a stupid donkey that gets me.

The level of quality has dropped off from the first couple of weeks, but as Kurt said, that is hopefully related to growing pains.

Personally, I still find some interesting nuggets in a lot of threads, mostly by ignoring those who seem arrogant and focusing on the posts from a few here who definitely have a grasp on how the game is played.

I enjoy the threads with give and take where posters can disagree without attacking each other (or the OP), which is what I think we had more of in the beginning.

I have no problem with advice either but the arrogance of some and the argumentative nature of others is maddening (especially when they ask for help and then disagree with everything everyone tells them.)

We hear this stuff all the time around here as well.

Who'd move there?

Greatest show ever!

brag: just made a ninja, on the spot analogy involving atheists and mosques to convince an internet player not to talk relatively deep strat at the table that he understood
Beat: fish may have understood it
Variance. Still awake at casino at 6am local, work at lunchtime.... 40hr day only one time???

Way too many hands posted that are clearly thinly-veiled bad beat stories or simply cold decks that play themselves out. In addition to this, the initial OP has often continued to defend his play and ignore otherwise helpful posts.

Huh? I haven't even posted a HH on this forum.

op's from the 'bad' threads ldo....

While I agree that some threads seem menial (and I'm sure I've posted my share of them), it's a discussion forum and there will inevitably be a lot of stuff which is quite straightforward/basic. But everyone is at a different learning stage and different people are likely to learn from these posts.

As mentioned, everyone is free to ignore bad threads/bad posts.

Of course, it still is really infuriating when OPs ask for advice and just spend the thread arguing against others' points of view... now THAT we should have a rule against.

I was considering instituting a rule that anyone who posts results in the first, say, 10 posts gets their thread merged with the BBV thread as they are clearly more interested in telling their bad beat story than discussion on the hand.

Yup thats me, I usually just look at the hands, consider what I would do or what I think about the hand, and then just go back to the thread later to compare my thoughts with the others posts..

A lot of others should follow ur lead

No, they should grunch!

Read the OP then post your thoughts before reading any responses. Then go back and compare your thought to others'.

...but can we agree that there is a way to post that doesn't make u sound like a know-it-all douche when, if u were self-aware at all, u'd know that maybe ur not the genius u think u are (which is tough I guess as most poker players think they are the world's greatest.)

I don't mind know-it-all responses. Like I said, its the responses calling other posters stupid that I don't like. Trolling and personal attacks is what puts me off.

One thing that reassures me is that people who come to this forum are trying to learn and get better, and if THEY are the people who are at least trying to improve, low stakes live NL is never going to die!

That's every forum everwhere.

Does anyone know a convenient link for shortstacking? I usually have from 15 to 40 bbs in front of me and I have never actually seen a chart that tells you what you can jam into limpers of one raiser.

If you really want to dig into the meat of it, look for the "shortacking illuminati" thread in FRuNL by MyTurn2Raise.

Also, there's a decent chance that next month's COTM will be about dealing with shortstacks. I'll have a thread up today getting the COTM stuff nailed down.