Whoops, typo - my bad. MP should have got away from that. The whole table was talking about "idiot ends" and such afterwards. Once the raising war began, the guy had to know A/2 wasn't any good.

Still... disgustingly sick cooler.

Amazed this thread sunk as far as it did... This just will not stand

2/3 Live in Australia

Two limps, a raise to 15 by a deepish terribad reg, I flat the button with 95 of spades while also kinda deep(flame away). One of the blinds calls, the two limpers call, and we see a flop 5 ways...

FLOP: 37T

So I flop a flush draw. Checks to me, I bet 65 into about 80 expecting to win it right there. One of the limpers calls and the rest fold. So the pot is now ~200 and I currently have 9 high...

Turn: K

Well, thats ok, if I bluff again he might fold some tens (double barrel scarecards FTW) he checks, and I decide to check my hole cards again, just in case the morphed into AA. Well, they didnt, but I did find something else in the hole

95

Oh ****, I have 9 high in a 66BB pot, and he only has 33BB back, I cover. Will he ever fold a ten in this spot if I shove? ****, I have 9 high no draw nadda... **** 9 high...

I decide to bet 100 in the off hope that he folds a ten... He shoves for 101. Im now getting around 400:1 immediate odds on a call, closing the action in a live game, and I am contemplating folding. In the end, I would look even more stupid if I fold getting 400:1 (I kinda tanked about it which looked dumb to start with) and eventually I called...

And the result



Cliffs

- Hero plays real bad
- Hero almost folds getting 400:1 on a call
- Hero kinda has a new image...

Can't win the hand if you don't bluff! I bet there too probably, sometimes wait for the river. The only thing is if you do it on the turn you should bet like $150, as if you have no clue that he is out of money and you're happily going to pound the river too.

I can tell poker stories in this thread, right? This one time, I picked up a betsizing tell on one guy. His cbet size told me he didn't think he had "it", whatever that meant in his mind. The thing is I was holding 42o with no pair no draw no nothing, once the 3rd player in the hand folds I make a nice big raise. Villain is kinda short stacked and tanks a bit. He says "I should probably just go all in, huh?"

I say back "OK, but I'll warn you, I'm not folding for one dollar more."

He's like "wait, how much do I have here?" and takes about a minute to count out his stack. It is indeed a dollar more than my bet. He shrugs and folds.

Actually, I've gotten a lot of comments from other people at the table about spots like this. See, I don't play the "showdown game". If you call my bluff, I announce "nine high" just like I announce any other hand and turn my cards up immediately. Usually people are too flabbergasted to tell you how bad you are.

I do this to provided that I am the one that was called, and it is obv my turn to expose my cards. Im not going to go with the "so what did you call me with". Not only that, if I decide to bluff with 7 high, Im going to announce it to the table as if I know what I am doing, partly because I dont feel embarressed about having no pair, and that I am happy to bluff, are you happy to call 200 next time when I have a set?

The only times I will wait for my turn to expose, is if I am not all that certain if I am good and I am 2nd to expose obv. Not much tilts me more then the people who in a limped pot 6 ways want to expose last, even from the BB what checked their option... FFS, muck or fold IMO,

BTW, I dont think this is a spot I hope to get myself into mulitple times LOL...

What I was more curious about the hand was what I would have done on the river, and why? had I checked the turn

Nh.

sick 1-outer bro

I know this is low content, and std beat/variance, but I just have to vent.

I recently busted my live roll, and decided to give myself 1 BI to play with on friday.

I did alright, built it up to ~$500, was upto 800 but dropped after one really stupid raise, and one cooler.

Went again last night, and I should have been able to profit huge.

I was there with another friend of mine, who grinds 1/2 for his mortgage, and wins at a solid clip.

We both lost. Huge.

Our table was amazingly soft.

We had one weaktight exploitable internet player, 2 action players that just came from 2/5, 2 stations, and one fish.

The one hand in particular that I have to vent about, is the hand that finally busted me, and I couldn't take any more.

I was UTG, so I straddled ($5)(which I usually do, and I believe it is a +ev play if you know you to leverage it) UTG+1 raises to 17, pretty std, most of the time my straddle gets raised on principle. Fish calls in SB, I look down at KQs. Tank for a while, and 3bet to $50.

Internet has $600, fish has about $250, I've got about $200.

They both call.

Flop comes 75X with two spades, so I'm liking where I'm at. Fish leads for like $65, I tank shove for ~$150, internet player folds obv, fish thinks for a while, and calls with A5o.

Seriously.

He called my 3x 3bet OOP pre 3way with A5o, then donkbet/called All In on a 7 hi flop with second pair.

I miss all 15 of my outs, for a solid double up to get me almost back up to break even.

He thinks he made a great call.

This **** takes every single ounce of self restraint I have in my entire body to not berate fish at the tables when they bust me with ******ed plays like this. I just want to know what in the god forsaken world makes them think they're ahead in these spots, but I don't want them to start thinking more, and make less mistakes.

I hate than I'm so passionate about this game. Because I hate it.

First of all, BBV is

<------------

that way.

I expect that when Kurt gets up, he'll merge this in.

You have strong feelings when you play. I was going to add some suggestions, but I'm only going to give one. Look into Gambler's Anonymous. Losing your bankroll, then going back to do something you hate is a really bad sign.

If you're still gonna play and not be rolled for the game, don't play with so much on the table. When you're up to like $500 you must leave. Chill for 40 mins have a drink or some food then come back and buy in for 200. Protecting wins is smarter than having a full roll on the table

You chose to risk your bankroll on a coin flip and now you are angry that you went broke?


Based upon this as well as previous posts, it's clear you regularly put large amounts of your limited bankroll at risk on coin flips.

If your goal at live poker is to do more than repeatedly go broke, then I sincerely urge you to take some time off and get your head straight before even thinking about sitting down at a table again.

Good luck.

Cliff:

lost roll in a coin flip

Have you ever watched the HBO series "The Wire"?
A character on the show once said "You want it to be one way, but it's the other way."
Based on some of your posts you are trying to make your opponents lay down hands they simply don't want to fold. Identifying those players and using that to exploit them is key at 1/2. You don't call without the nuts when the old rock shoves into you, and you don't try to make the calling stations fold. Just applying those principles can save/make you a lot of money at this level.

from SB's perspective. better hand preflop, better hand at showdown. why should he fold? possibly his read was you were a spaz on a flush draw - a pretty good read as it happened.

who's the ******? who got levelled on this hand.

you ridicule Internet who is up two buyins while you skulk out of the casino, broke, your 1 buyin roll busted - 3 bet KQ OOP for 1/4 of your roll and the rest all in on the flop on a flush draw

looks like a great table for when you actually have a hand.

in the future, try to choose your strategy to exploit the type of player(s) who are your opponents. if you had another buy-in you could use the metagame boost from this recklessly played hand to get paid off on future hands.

oh, and fish's call is pretty trivial based on the pot odds being offered. his play in the rest of the hand may have been justified by your previous hands if this is how you normally play. if you play lag, expect more swings and get yourself a bigger BR. best of luck.

Maybe the fish's A5o to begin with was a bad play, but I've seen people get into a big pot with worse, solely for the reason of this. You blame him fro getting good odds to call a coin flip? He's a fish, he will do anything, thats why you love him. If you hit your flush you are on here saying how amazing a play it was... in reality you took a chance with a flip and lost, it happens. I took a chance with a 60-40 or so for stacks the other day and lost... its poker.

Plus it seems like you over-valued KQs... thats a big hand that too many people get beat with imo.

Plus no need to 3 bet PF either imo. Theres a nice bunch of change in the pot already, you can easily get stacks in with where you are at.

Plus you forget its a live game with lots of money on the table. As far as I can see it, from the fish perspective, there is about $360+ on the table, and he only needs to call about $90 or so. You're either a big flush draw (coin flip), a set (loser) or another pair... I'd pay another $90 to win a $360 pot with middle pair too. great odds on lots of flips, chance for a suckout 2 pair or set himself... For all we know this "fish" might actually have been a decent player. Again - live game, big money on the table, people are calling for that price.

Fish must have been like.. "LMAO I put this kid on Ace King, I beat that. CALL..."

For some reason this thread stuck with me today. And at the risk of piling on, I’ll say that “fish” may very well have been a “fish” who found himself in a spot where his opponent played it in such a way as to give him the opportunity to play without making too large of a mistake on the flop. On the other hand, he may very well have been a reasonable player with a decent read on Gopher.

Maybe it had been a long session and he had a decent read from that. Maybe he’d gone up against Gopher previously. If so, then based upon Gopher’s description of his own play in this and in the thread where he discussed blowing his entire live bankroll, then “fish” may have known exactly what he was doing.

Putting myself in “fish’s” shoes:

Pre-flop: I made a questionable call of the opening raise from the “weak tight” player in early position. Probably not the best of decisions, but who knows, maybe I had a more specific and useful read on him than simply “weak tight internet player.”

When Gopher re-raises and “internet” just calls, now I’ve got some useful information. “Internet” just clarified his range in a way that probably rules out most hands that (if he’s really “weak tight”) he’ll continue with unless the flop hits him. Gopher, on the other hand, has a range that’s still pretty darn wide. He’s aggressive enough to get frisky here with a bunch of hands (such as KQ) against which my A5o is actually a marginal favorite. Sure, there are bad hands in Gopher’s range too. But against those bad hands I’m typically around a 3-1 underdog and more importantly, I think there are more good hands than bad hands in Gopher’s range. So against Gopher, I feel reasonably comfortable getting 2-1 on the call.

(Here’s a thought that’s also of relevance to this particular thread. – I feel much more comfortable making the call if I’ve got a large enough bankroll to withstand the risk of this type of play.)

My choice to take the risk and call is partially helped by “internet” being in the hand and the fact that I can close the action pre-flop. I’d still prefer a better read on him than “weak tight exploitable internet player” but I’ll assume for the sake of argument that’s a reasonable read of his being the sort to be cautious and generally put money in when he’s got a strong hand and fold when he doesn’t.

Post-flop: Against these two opponents, I think this may very well be exactly the sort of flop I want to see. By opening with a $65 bet into the $150 pot I accomplish three things. First, making such a small bet, I give myself just enough room to get away from the hand if “internet” announces with a call or a raise that he has me beat. Second, if it turns out that Gopher comes along for the ride, I’m comfortable getting it in if that’s what he wants to do because I know his range is mostly made up of hands against which I’m getting only slightly the worse side of a coin flip. Third, there’s a reasonably greater than zero chance that they both decide discretion is the better part of valor and my bet wins the pot.

As it played out, I’m obviously perfectly happy to make the call once Gopher shoves.

If that happens and I lose, that’s not the end of the world because I can be pretty certain that Gopher is going to peg me as a “******” and target me in such a fashion that there is a reasonable chance I will have an opportunity to stack him later in the session.

lesson, dont 3 bet kqs in a 1/2 game.

Maybe I should clear a few things up, since I think the motivation behind my writing this was misunderstood by more than a couple people.

I wasn't/am not angry that I busted on a flip. Except for one hand in particular, I am very satisfied with now I played this entire weekend.

I never ridiculed the internet player, I said he was exploitable.

I would never put money on the table that I need to live. If I decide to give myself 2 BIs to play with when I don't have a roll, it's because I can afford to spend 2BIs.

I don't really understand why so many people here think it's spew to ship it with 2 overs and a FD. I have 53% equity against 1 pair (including overpairs smaller than your low card), 47% equity against 2 pair, and 25% against a set. Once you put all that together, yes, it's a flip. But shoving is the right move. If you only flat call, and you miss the turn, now you're playing a draw in a bloated pot, and likely paying too much to draw. If you hit, you wont get paid off nearly as often.

Not really sure where this came from, since I would never call without the nuts if a rock shoved into me, and I never bluff unless I've got a very good reason to.

So again, I'm not pissed that I lost a flip, I'm just amazed at how some of these guys will call 3bets OOP and donkbet flops with a hand that I wouldn't be caught dead playing unless I'm in the BB in a limped pot. I know he had odds to call by the end, but there's just no reason why he should have been in that situation.

I've got no problem with players making more, and bigger, mistakes than me at the table; But, you just have to wonder what they're thinking when they do.

They think that this poker thing beats BlackJack since they don't need to post $25 for every hand they're dealt.

I like the effort you put into this post. edit: That sounded more demeaning than I meant it to, I actually do appreciate the thought you put into it.

In truth, I had more of a read on internet than just "weak-tight"

He'll call fairly wide preflop, but after the flop, he wont be involved in a pot larger than $300 without 2pr. He obv understands showdown value, and wont raise a dominated hand.

On 'Fish'
I've never played with him before, he's not a reg, and I'd seen him get lucky several times at the table before. He was not a positionally aware, or a thinking, ranging player. He was my target in the hand. (I would never 3bet KQs HU against internet, because his calling range is too strong)

TBH, I didn't expect internet to call my 3bet, but when I hit the flop that hard, I didn't mind him being involved, since I've still got plenty of equity against overpairs upto JJ. This hand played out pretty much exactly as I wanted/expected.

The swings just get to me sometimes. But if I've got 2 over and a FD, I'm still shipping it every time, because it's the right play.

The swings are why I started playing 2/4FL for a while. I just wanted to wait until I had my confidence in my game back, then I moved back into 1/2nl.

To be perfectly honest, the person I'm most angry at is myself, because I didn't ask to run it twice. Though I'm sure fish would have responded with "naw, I'm here to play poker".

pick you spots. one thing i do that has reduced my variance and likelihood of getting stacked with a worse hand is to play tighter than i think is optimal at 1/2. go there with a mindset that you are willing to fold the better hand once in a while when facing pressure.

you will have a lower winrate but also lower variance. then when you start recovering your BR and start turning a consistent profit, you can slowly loosen up your game and start making more moves.

a lot of players will tell you, if you push 52% edges left right n center you better be ready for mega swings. trying to get fish to fold when you don't have a hand is similar to that.

: /

i think you presume you have way more fold equity in 1/2 live than you actually do. shipping 2 overs + FD may make sense online in a lot of situations, but live i'm very skeptical.

more experienced players correct me if i'm wrong, but i think doing this "every time" is a huge leak. also as mentioned before, even if you can somehow extract value from one-pair hands that you are ahead of HU, this is a HUGE variance play. be prepared for giant swings

these are the types of things you need to sort out before you go back to the table IMO

I have been playing poker since my little old Texas granny taught me how to play stud. One of her teaching methods was to smack me with a blunt object when I did or said something she considered "the dumbest thing I ever saw or heard." (There were many things she considered the dumbest things she ever saw or heard.)

Consider yourself smacked for the notion of running in twice at 1-2nl.