both are fine. If you fold here, you´ll srew up your winrate. not by calling.

We don’t even know the stakes, my man. Raising to 25 over two limps from the sb is very different between 1/2 and 2/5.

Hand 1, calculate what your range is and what you have to defend to prevent this from being an automatically profitable play. He’s risking like $1625 to win $120 or so. That means you only need to call with like 7% of your hands. Given he has equity when called, the real math suggests slightly more than 7%. But if you’re 3 betting like 6% (which is on the high side for a lot of players in live poker because people are so passive vs opens), you can probably just call it off with aces and profit. You definitely don’t have to call with worse than kings unless you’re a maniac and he’s a maniac.

Hand 2, not sure why the initial 3 bet is so undersized. But noticeably absent from your read is what OMC has shown when he raises and calls a 3 bet. Against players like this, you could go ahead and observe their play for hundreds, if not thousands, of hours to make precise plays. Or you can just observe their showdowns and assume they will just have a static strategy every time with certain hand classes. Which often times isn’t far from the truth.


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The problem with folding here is live players will ship with JJ+ and AK too because they dont know what else to do. With KK i'm calling off unless I'm like 1000BB deep.

Don’t think people are shoving in 330bb with QQ

What stakes or are we just going to guess? Hand 1 doesn’t even give effective stacks. Feel like this is just a crybaby thread or otherwise the information required to assess to the situation would have been stated.

in any way, thinking about folding KK pre is probabky the least important part of your game speaking about wr.

I've moved it here because you should only be folding Kings pf if you are certain the villain had aces. How certain? Only if you wouldn't have even hesitated about mucking them. If you have to think about it, you shouldn't fold them.

You ran into aces. It happens.

Someone raised preflop, villian 3bet to 9, two callers, then I 4bet to 40. Only villian calls. Flop came K 10 3 rainbow. I bet 40 again and villian insta jams for 240 more and I fold. I had Aces, he AK. Thought he had a set. Like what jams there for value and is expected to call worse? The villian 3bets close to never and calling a 4bet is very rare for him. Villian definitely overplays some hands, but if he is aggro it means he has a solid hand.

Make him show you a set next time.

That's a common pattern you see at LLSNL games. He is probably thinking a combination of "I'm probably ahead now/don't want to get drawn out on" + "I don't want to call a bunch of bets and lose, I'd rather stick it in myself" + "I don't want to have a tough decision of whether to call down when the board gets scarier".

Reminds me of a really special 1/3 hand I observed last weekend. On T95cc it went bet $20, raise $50, 3bet $225, 4bet jam $600. The guy with $600 had QT (no club). He said "I put you on a flush draw". (The other guy sigh called with 55).

Friday night at the local card barn. I buy in to the 1/2 NL game with $100. Half an hour in, I've edged up to $140 when I pick up AA in the hoohack or whatever the seat two before the button is called. I raise to $12, two callers. Long story short, flop comes K 3 zero, the turn is a zero, the river is a zero. With absolutely no straight or flush draws on the board, and my two opponents flat calling my $40 flop and all-in turn bets, I think I might be good. Ha. The guy on the button called with K3o, and flat called all the way. Rebuy!

Saturday afternoon, I'm back in action. On the small blind, I pick up AA and raise the two limpers to $15. The board comes J22. Suffice it to say that I lost the hand to K2s, and the only silver lining was that he started the hand with just $95.

It's Saturday night now. Fortified by a cardroom meal of irradiated chicken (they claimed it had been chicken once, anyway), I mostly float along for an hour or so when I pick up AA UTG (Up They Go). I raise to $17, probably influenced by the previous two hands. FIVE people call. The flop comes 933. I bet $60, hoping to end the hand right there. Everyone folds except the nice little old man in the small blind, who calls. The turn is the sixteen of bananas, or something. He checks, and seeing him looking just a little too happy, I check behind. The river is the fart of bleems, or something. He happy-checks. I consider betting but decide to just show it down. Yep, he has K3.

I realize that I probably played the last hand badly, but I had confidence in my read, which just happened to be correct. The takeaway was that despite these losses, it was evident that I was playing against a bunch of loony birds. I also lost pretty much the minimum for getting Aces cracked three times.

I won $700 for the weekend, so all was good. I'm not asking for advice here, because there isn't really anything advice-worthy ("fold your Aces!"). It's what I was thinking after the dust settled:

a) You gotta love it when people are calling your raises with pig poop.
b) I'm sure that in all the pots I won, there were players who had even less reason to be there than my Kx buddies, but I never saw their hands.

What can be morale-crushing if you don't think in the long term is that you only see the pig poop that beats you. But in the interim, people are calling raises with and eventually throwing away J8s, 75o, K9o, A4o, 107s, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. It's a money-fest out there even if occasionally, the players who are purveyors of putrid pig poop get you.

You have to move up in stakes where they respect your raises...

Hold on, don't the running zeroes counterfeit his hand?

Also, you obv need to expand your hoohack opening range, otherwise you'll be capped on zero-heavy boards.

Hero started his session with $200 in a live 1-2 game.

Loose fish limp UTG $2
Loose aggressive fish raise in mid-position to $13
Hero on BTN with KcKs 3bet to $40
UTG Folds
fish called in Mid position $40.

Flop Qc 6d 2s - Pot ~$85
Hero has a SPR of 2

fish checks

On such a dry board, it is very unlikely the fish has anything strong.
Hero bets $35
fish raised all in $160

Hero instantly called.

Turn: 7d
River: 10c

Fish proudly tabled 2d6d for flopped 2 pairs.

This is the 12th losing session in a row and I still think I played well and crashed table. But the result said otherwise.

What's the point of poker, when the fish did everything wrong but can beat you easily? I won't bore you with all the bad beats and cold decks.

Advice welcomed. I stopped playing all together after this hand. I really can't see any point.

Reload and lock the doors.

If those kinds of beats upset you to the point of quitting, you probably made the right choice. It's tough, especially early in the "long run" to maintain the long-term view.

First of all, there are two 6ds in this deck . . . or HH is off.

Rule #1: Don't pay off the fish (or at least not always). I'm not saying you should fold the flop on this dry board with KK and a low SPR. But you also have to realize that the strategy of this "fish" is to make ridiculous hands and stack players like yourself who are not going to fold one pair to them. When he check raises you (not the same as a raise), you have to at least consider that he might have a hand, as crazy as that seems on this dry board. Not every super aggro player is a "fish" postflop when the money goes in. When they pile money in, they are going to have it a lot of times.

On this board, you might consider betting smaller and then deciding when he jams, or even checking a street (or two).

Bad beats happen more frequently than you can imagine possible. In this hand, you got the majority of your stack in bad. On the flop, the "fish" actually played it pretty well.

Time to work on your game if you want to keep playing in hopes of winning.

Lol

Glancing around to see if people are going to fold is whatever, it's maybe slightly worth something to know that although you are in HJ you are really on the BTN ... but people accidentally give off false tells all the time. Esp. so at low stakes where they'll look like they are ready to play any2 (60%+ limp ftw) but will then fold to almost any raise.

Much more important are two things:

1. You are slowing the game down, and thus. slowing down the number of hands you'll play and your edge in litterally every other aspect of the game should be worth more than bad pre flop "reads".

2. People will dislike you for #1 and not just a little bit.

Good points. But you literally replied to a 13 year old post lol.

Ha, no idea how I managed to click on that ... the month/days matched up and I guess I didn't look past that.



As penance:

V1: $180 ish ... keeps complaining about running bad with AA/JJ before I sat down, playing bad and opening to $12 wide and limping almost everything else.

V2: Loves to call anything, has $250ish.

H: "Fish who's never played live before." Covers.

Two or three limps
V1 on BTN makes it $12
V2 in SB calls.
H in BB looks at AJo and is sure it's the nuts, makes it $42
folds to V1/BTN who calls
V2 folds.

Flop: A52hh (~$100)
H x
V1 bets $40
H thinks a couple of seconds and calls

Turn: A52hh Ax ($180)
H x
V1 shoves $100
H calls

V1 says if you have an A you are good I have A4, H shows AJo, V flips over A5s ... river 7, gg, fish loses.

Lol, pretty epic thread bump, it was in a slumber for almost 2 years, nice!

Not sure if other respondents were trolling to what looks like a run-of-the-mill badbeat story, but the hand is played fine by Hero, imo. We got in a hugenormous 1/5th of our stacks preflop and flopped an overpair in an SPR lol 2 pot; folding should never be a consideration.

Losing 12 sessions in a row at LLSNL is really really really really difficult to do if you're a winning player. So my guess is that you're not remotely as good a player as you think you are, and most likely simply a losing player. My guess is that you've cherry picked this standard / well played hand as an example of how bad you're running, when in reality you've misplayed most other spots.

If you're looking to get better, post some hands where you're having difficulty (no badbeats, some real hands where you are perhaps unwittingly bleeding money) for feedback to see if you're even remotely close to approaching LLSNL reasonably.

GgoodluckG

I pulled a sick bluff tonight. Was taking a shot at 2/5. $750 effective (150 BB) im small stack.
UTG limps. Hero raise UTG+1 with JcTc to 25. Villain in the dealer with 6k behind calls. Big blind calls. UTG limper calls.
100 in the pot, Flop comes QdTs8h. Checks to V who bets 75. BB fold. UTG limper calls. I close the flop action by calling.
325 in the pot, Turn is Kd. QdTs8hKd. UTG checks and I take the betting lead which was a dynamic with multiway pots occurring at the table with someone else besides last aggressor making a bet. I bet 150. V in button calls, limper folds.
625 in the pot, river is 4d. So QdTs8hKd4d. I figure V most likely has a strong 1 pair hand or two pair hand since i block straights by having a J in my hand. Since i led back door diamonds i feel i can credibly rep the flush. I jam for 450, he tanks for a minute, says diamonds sir? Then folds.
I had a pretty tight image was wearing a mask so no one could read me and I was folding almost everything on the flop in the hands I played.