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Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish

11-16-2013 , 07:39 PM
1/3 Aria. It's 4am. People are drunk, gambling it up, and laughing.

Hero has just come over from a broken table and played 2 quiet orbits, paying attention to the other players. I brought $1170 with me from the broken game. This table should have no clue about me at all, and the game is now 7-handed.

Villain 1 is 70ish, Russian with thick accent and a stack of $100 bills behind his $1000 stack. He's got ~$2200 total. He's played every hand since I sat down, often over-betting draws, taking bizarre lines, and calling 100bb all-ins with two overs. He has show a propensity to fold if pushed back, however, so he's not a complete maniac. Very loose pre-flop, but he calms down after the flop - unless it's checked to him - then he bets.

Villain 2 - Complete noob fish. It seems like it's his first time playing the game, as he often has to be told when it's his action and what his options are. He can't read other people/s hands and will call down his whole stack with TP. He has busted and rebought twice in the two orbits I've been at the table. However, he has just dbld. up vs. Villain 1 when he he flopped a set vs. an over pair. ~$450.

HAND:

Hero is in SB
Villain 1 is OTB
Villain 2 is in HJ

Everyone limps. Hero completes with 64. BB checks his option.

FLOP ($21):

532

Hero checks. Checked through to Villain 1, who bets $30.

Hero raises to $115. Villain's bet smells like a pair + SD or FD. I want to get money in the pot quickly before any scare cards hit the turn or river. I over-bet slightly, because I know Villain won't fold to a single raise if he has perceived outs. Thoughts?

Villain 2, surprisingly, quickly calls.

Villain 1 looks at me for the first time. Frowns. But he slides out a call out.

Turn ($366):

3

Hero bets $275.

Villain 2 quickly pushes all-in for $332 total.

Villain 1 immediately announces all-in.

It's $777 to call. ~$1455 in the pot.

...Hero?

Last edited by Dominic; 11-16-2013 at 07:57 PM.
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-16-2013 , 07:44 PM
terrible card. Only thing worse is a heart. You are beat 99% of the time here. I would fold, you can not improve.

Edit: BTW how is V1 all in for 332 with his stack??
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-16-2013 , 07:57 PM
Sorry, I fixed it...had villains mixed up on turn
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-16-2013 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevv2012
terrible card. Only thing worse is a heart. You are beat 99% of the time here. I would fold, you can not improve.
Why do you think we're beat that often? Villain 2 literally could have a pair or fives here. Or something like 77 ot 88.

Villain 1 has shown a propensity to over-push draws. If my read is correct on the flop, wouldn't he have re-raised with two pair or a set there? I know against most opponents, this is probably a fold...but can we really fold here?

Is calling spew? Or do we go with our read?
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-16-2013 , 08:50 PM
Grunch. Gross gross turn.

Since everybody limped in I fold to the board pairing. Too many limping hands are now in pole position.

I fold in this vacuum. Maybe with reads I can find a call. I prefer opening PF rather than limping with trash to ensure I'm the only one with trash to hit. =)
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-16-2013 , 11:34 PM
how has the Russian played his value hands? This is key to the hand. I would think an uber agro would re raise flop w/ 2 pair+.

This is a high variance spot. If your behind your drawing dead, if your ahead he should have outs, it's hard to put this guy on a FH here but I need to have reads before I'd stack off vs two players.
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-16-2013 , 11:38 PM
Why did you not bet the flop?
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-17-2013 , 04:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeVernon
Why did you not bet the flop?
I think his plan was to check/raise the Russian who has been a maniac and betting a lot when checked to

How did villain play his set in that previous hand?

I think you absolutely have to call it off. Villains could have draws, trip 3s, same hand, or over-pairs enough of the time for it to be profitable. Its hard to believe anyone would slow-play a set here on a flush-draw/straight-draw board in a C/R pot at a very loose/maniacal table.
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-17-2013 , 04:22 AM
Against these Villains, this is an easy call. V1 can have A3 here, or could be taking a bizarre line with A4. 63/43 are probably in his range. There just aren't enough possible boat combos to comprise a substantial enough portion of his wide range to justify folding when you're getting ~2:1. Not really concerned about V2 given stack size and reads; 5x/3x/overpairs are all in his range.
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-17-2013 , 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeVernon
Why did you not bet the flop?
See below

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke0424
I think his plan was to check/raise the Russian who has been a maniac and betting a lot when checked to

How did villain play his set in that previous hand?

I think you absolutely have to call it off. Villains could have draws, trip 3s, same hand, or over-pairs enough of the time for it to be profitable. Its hard to believe anyone would slow-play a set here on a flush-draw/straight-draw board in a C/R pot at a very loose/maniacal table.
Villain 2 had the set, and checked the flop on a T-high board. Villain 1 over-pushed with JJ and Villain 2 called.
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-17-2013 , 05:12 AM
I was not concerned with Villain 2 at all.

I was fairly confident I was still ahead of Villain 1...the main issue was that I can't improve obviously, and I was sure that Villain 2 had some kind of FD and/or something else that might be improved by the river. And we're talking a swing of 365 BBs if I'm wrong. On one hand!

But since I am getting 2-1, and I was confident in my reads...I guess I have to embrace the variance, right?

I called.

Spoiler:
River was a black K.

Villain 2 turned over QsQc.
Villain 1 turned over A3

(I accidentally gave you the wrong suits on the flop - the 3 was a diamond and the 2 was a heart) Sorry!

Whew.

I just wanted to know if I made a bad call, even if I won.
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-17-2013 , 12:02 PM
The fact that you gave the wrong suits is huge. If we allow the Russian to have in his range a flush draw with a pair that improved to trips, this is now an easy call. Before that, the only thing in his range that makes sense that you beat is 43.
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-17-2013 , 02:25 PM
Against V1, based on what we know, I think I make a crying call here.
You said he overvalues drawing hands and such.
Its a limped pot, so I think he could easily have a hand like 36, or even 34, or maybe hes even going crazy with 6's here?
I think V1 is re-raising his combodraws, sets, and 2pairs OTF.

I call.
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-17-2013 , 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeVernon
The fact that you gave the wrong suits is huge. If we allow the Russian to have in his range a flush draw with a pair that improved to trips, this is now an easy call. Before that, the only thing in his range that makes sense that you beat is 43.
I know. I'm a doofus.
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-17-2013 , 07:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by trucdouf
Grunch. Gross gross turn.

Since everybody limped in I fold to the board pairing. Too many limping hands are now in pole position.

I fold in this vacuum. Maybe with reads I can find a call. I prefer opening PF rather than limping with trash to ensure I'm the only one with trash to hit. =)
Did you not read the op's description of villains? This is not a vacuum and I'm calling quickly.
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote
11-17-2013 , 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redskins 47
Did you not read the op's description of villains? This is not a vacuum and I'm calling quickly.
I didn't the first time and couldn't edit my post in time.

Fwiw I said with reads I'm calling. =)
Nut Straight Super Deep Vs. Wildcard and Fish Quote

      
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