Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-26-2018, 11:38 AM   #1
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 1,021
Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

Ok so i'll just keep this simple, In a 5 way pot as the pfr, when you flop the nut flush draw but the board connects with your opponents range. Do you want to c-bet every time, or mix in some checks as well.


Hero:Ah8h ( I open in pos. 6x) I think I was in CO here but im last act post flop
get 4 callers

Flop: Jh9hX; checked to me; So over card to the board and nut flush draw;


Reasons for betting are pretty obvious with our equity; I'm curious if there is any reason for checking here sometimes; I feel this flop hits their range more than it does mine so my fold equity can't be too high but there is value in thinning the field; we can't really win that often if we check back here;


What do you think?
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 11:59 AM   #2
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 24,489
Re: Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

I like checking here. As you say, we are behind their ranges and our FE is low. Further, what value is there in thinning the field when we can't win unless we hit anyway?

Dream situation is that someone has the lower FD and it comes in. Let's take that free card.
Garick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 12:07 PM   #3
QuadJ
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,484
Re: Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

With position on 1 opponents pretty much always bet. As you add more opponents you need to look at other factors and mix in some checks. You will still want to bet a lot just for the chance to buy a free card on the turn.

How big is the pot? If the pot is bloated by 4+ callers it may too be expensive. How likely is a check/raise? On really wet flops or against really aggressive opponents you have to watch that a check/raise doesn't price you out. Do you have any other outs that may be good? Have AsKs on a JT5 board the A or K may be good and a Q is great. Having As9s on a KQ5 board means little chance catching anything but the flush is good.

How hard does the board connect and how it connects is also important. JT9 is a board where somebody likely already has a big hand and the risk of a check/raise is high. J86 is more likely a drawing board. K93 means somebody likely has top pair. In a lot of cases you still want to bet against a few opponents but it makes a big difference in considering if you want to barrel/bluff.

In the specific example you give I would mix between checks and bets. It's a good board to bet flop/check turn/give up river if you don't hit your flush but with 4 opponents you won't have a lot of FE on the flop so a good portion of checks is also good. Would need more information on stack sizes and villains to conjecture how often.
QuadJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 02:18 PM   #4
maromaUA
stranger
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 5
Re: Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

I think it depends, but most of the time we have no FE against 5 players here, and we most of the time anyway give up turn. If i'll bet i bet small like half pot just for buying a free card on the turn, but check for me is better
maromaUA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 02:30 PM   #5
ImAllInNow
Pooh-Bah
 
ImAllInNow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 4,856
Re: Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

I like betting here $20-$25 against passive opposition because you can generally check back the turn and realize massive equity with a flop bet. You also free up your Ace outs this way as better aces will nearly always fold the flop.
ImAllInNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 02:41 PM   #6
ibelieveyouoweme$80k
LLSNL FF Champ '13
 
ibelieveyouoweme$80k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wentzylvania baby
Posts: 12,851
Re: Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

What are you gonna do if you get raised?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ibelieveyouoweme$80k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 03:11 PM   #7
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 1,021
Re: Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

I think these players were really stationy so I don't anticipate getting raised here, but if I did it would depend on the sizing , I would probably have to fold if I wasn't getting the right price; im not sure if these players are checking hands like Jx or sets and what not so I think maybe I could fold out some medium strength hands like straight draws and 9x with a small bet
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 03:36 PM   #8
DumbosTrunk
Pooh-Bah
 
DumbosTrunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,123
Re: Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

As someone else pointed out, stack sizes are always important. When you flop this much equity and effective stacks are small, I'm fine with just shipping it. You force someone with a pair to commit now before the flush (or ace) hits, when they may find an escape hatch.
DumbosTrunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 03:46 PM   #9
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 1,021
Re: Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

average spr is about 5.5 on the flop
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 03:47 PM   #10
tmo1120
adept
 
tmo1120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southwest, FL
Posts: 1,021
Re: Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

each player had between 2 and 4 hundred and pot was 60
tmo1120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 03:50 PM   #11
DumbosTrunk
Pooh-Bah
 
DumbosTrunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,123
Re: Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmo1120 View Post
each player had between 2 and 4 hundred and pot was 60
Personally, this deep I'd check. But you could make an argument for a more aggressive approach and play this like you would an overpair and bet, bet, jam on good runouts.
DumbosTrunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2018, 04:38 PM   #12
haTTTrick
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 53
Re: Nut Flush draw on the Flop, 1/2 NL

I feel like you are almost never wrong being aggressive at low stakes live
haTTTrick is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive