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Old 01-25-2016, 01:50 PM   #1
Mr. Curious
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Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

Live $3/5

Player / Stacks / Reads:
BB ($1100) : sat down two hands ago, he is slightly drunk, calls himself the greatest tourney player (some people in the casino seem to agree)

CO ($400): Seems ABC, though I think he'll overplay his big pairs / AK

Hero (SB) ($500): Pretty much an unknown to BB & CO

Preflop:
Folds to CO who opens for $20 (his range here is probably 99-AA, AK - AT, maybe KQ or KJ)
Button folds
Hero has 6 6 and calls
BB raises to $105 (he's yammering about his play and himself, telling us to call because he's so good)
CO takes a long while and calls (I think we can alter his range to 99-AA, AK, maybe AQ or KQ - is that range too big?)

Hero should....

... fold and wait for a better spot
... call playing for set value
... raise
... have raised earlier instead of calling
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Old 01-25-2016, 01:58 PM   #2
BigSkip
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

At this point in the hand, calling and raising are both awful. Just fold. BB could be squeezing, but when your ABC opponent calls for over 1/4 of his stack any ideas of getting fancy here should leave your head immediately.

Calling the first raise is questionable due to position, and raising an ABC player from the blinds with 66 is pretty bad.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:04 PM   #3
BiteMeFish
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

I think we can tighten CO's range a bit away from the big pairs if your read is right. Seems like he's gonna be pretty straightforward with them in a situation like this, so I'd remove AA/KK and maybe give QQ a discount. I also feel like K high might be out too.
As for your action, I'm calling too in this spot, and while I might be tempted to play against the BB given his consumption and ego chat, I don't think the stacks are big enough to set mine. Calling the initial raise was fine given position and players left to act, but I think you let it go now.

Last edited by BiteMeFish; 01-25-2016 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Bored, skip?
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:10 PM   #4
samo
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

Fold, lack of implied odds.

I'd call $17 more given the opponent descript. He may not be able to fold an over pair if we flop a set. We are also getting > 20-1 implied odds on the first call.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:33 PM   #5
DrDanimal
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

This an easy fold. Not even close to deep enough to set mine here. Need to be at least 1k+ deep to call that.
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:37 PM   #6
Mr. Curious
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

this is why I love 2+2. I did fold, but I thought I was being weak and making a poor choice since with the right flop and the money already in the pot and if they both pushed their stacks in, I would have had the right odds to call.

Am I making too big of an assumption about my opponent's willingness to get all their money into the pot?
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:41 PM   #7
Below Zero
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

Note: I think you're ranging the CO pretty tight. He could certainly have a very wide range when it's folder around to him the cut-off.

PF: Calling is fine, although we must realize that the CO is probably opening very wide here, so you're not likely to stack him if you are set mining. From the BB's perspective, he saw a late open, and then just a call, so he may be squeezing light here. Now when it gets to you it's $230:$85 (2.7:1).

The question is...are we getting implied odds of $400:$85 (4.7:1) or even better $900:$85 (10.5:1) if we think we can stack both Vs. It's way too optimistic to think we can stack both, so really we could be getting only 5:1 on implied odds.

Bad Spot, Bad odds...So as played, I'd fold.
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Old 01-25-2016, 03:27 PM   #8
quemado
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Curious View Post
this is why I love 2+2. I did fold, but I thought I was being weak and making a poor choice since with the right flop and the money already in the pot and if they both pushed their stacks in, I would have had the right odds to call.

Am I making too big of an assumption about my opponent's willingness to get all their money into the pot?
I prefer to watch what they do and ignore what they say. I think you are short on information as to what Villain is willing or not willing to do. Villain may get his kicks just from watching you push and then folding, leaving you with ABC. As for ABC, I wouldn't want my stack in with him in this hand.
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Old 01-25-2016, 04:13 PM   #9
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Curious View Post
this is why I love 2+2. I did fold, but I thought I was being weak and making a poor choice since with the right flop and the money already in the pot and if they both pushed their stacks in, I would have had the right odds to call.

Am I making too big of an assumption about my opponent's willingness to get all their money into the pot?
I'll get to the decision in a moment, but will first say that on average, tourney players will more frequently stack off with OP, even deep, as will many average players at this stake who simply call too much. Savvier players will do so, correctly, when shallow, but are no longer just handing you 150,200,250BB+ unless on tilt or armed with strong evidence/equity to do so. Granted, mistakes are rampant even amongst the better players in live poker, but your profitibilty with 66 will stem from preset rules moreso than your opponents in any one hand -- you'll adjust these rules slightly based on opponent tendencies, but it likely won't vary much for the game you're playing.

OK so Fold to the 100. There are lots of other threads from which you can glean golden knowledge about small PPs along with some documented ratios you can use as a rules foundation to adjust as you see fit. Rehashing some of my own and others' thoughts: When multiway, a hand like 66 likes to keep SPR as large as possible (within reason, infinite stacks presents problems) to have "room" to VB. At the same time, it wants to see flops for a reasonable cost given its flop eq distribution is so polarized. So, even without a set of rules, you should be able to intuitively feel how your EV is smashed the more of your stack you have to put in PF... 6xx (and some 345/457) flops are too rare to recover all the other flops where you Ck-F ... Also remember that even the 12% of the time you flop 6xx, you are still not at 100% eq.
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Old 01-25-2016, 08:22 PM   #10
QuadJ
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

Over estimating your chance that you can get one to stack off when you hit a set? Probably not. The problem is that just getting one to stack off doesn't win you enough money. SPR is such that flop betting is going to be check/shove or check/fold for you. And it's just too rare that you can get both villains, far too often one of them will fold. BB will shove, CO folds and then you shove or BB checks, CO shoves and then BB folds when you shove. Add in the rare cases where you hit your set and both villains just check/fold because they have air or one villain hits a better hand.

I can construct a situation where this is almost a call. If you know BB is a maniac and squeezing super wide (50% or wider range) and is going to shove 100% of flops. Plus CO is reacting to that by calling preflop wider and will call the flop shove with any top pair, any good draw and some worse hands. Now you have a good chance of stacking both if you catch your set, will almost always at least stack BB with a set and will occasionally call the flop shove and win with just a pair of sixes. Still not quite enough money or equity with just 66 but it's close.
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:07 PM   #11
Mr. Curious
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

Results:

Hero folds deciding that he can't count on getting either stack if he flops a set.

Flop: 9 7 2 rainbow

BB says "That flop didn't hit you, you want to gamble?" and pushes all-in.
CO tanks and then folds.
BB jumps up and says "I knew it" and shows AT offsuit.
CO says he folded AK.
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:14 PM   #12
wiffle
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

first decision is the only interesting one
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:55 PM   #13
MikeStarr
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

He may be a great tourney player but most of the great tourney players Ive played cash games with are pretty bad. They play cash games just like they play tourneys....and this hand is a perfect example. If he does that a few more times he will get busted.
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Old 01-31-2016, 11:05 PM   #14
dwannabe
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

$20 is an easy call
hell I'd call $20 (with those Eff stacks) if his had was face up and he had AA
$105 is an easy fold.
You need 10-1 implied odds to set mine
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Old 01-31-2016, 11:09 PM   #15
iraisetoomuch
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

snappity snap fold
If we were all $1,000 deep then maaaaybe
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Old 01-31-2016, 11:18 PM   #16
Nice_Guy_Eddie
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Re: Not sure what to do closing the action with 66

EZ foldz
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