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Old 02-05-2012, 12:22 PM   #176
masaraksh
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by bschr04 View Post
1/2 NL

Villain is middle-aged white recreational player. Plays like a standard 1/2 player- loose preflop including a good amount of limps, fit or fold post flop. Never raising post-flop without close to the nuts.

Hero ($600)
Villain ($300)

Villain Straddles to $4
MP calls
Hero (7h Th) calls $4 from button
BB calls
Straddle checks.

Flop ($17) 3 8h T rainbow
Villain bets $15
MP folds
Hero calls
BB folds

Turn ($47) 3x 8h Tc Qc
Villain bets $15
Hero raises to $60.

Like it?
i like it.

even if he calls there is like no way he could call of 120 on riv.
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Old 02-05-2012, 05:23 PM   #177
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I think if we are turning our hand into a bluff, I would size it a bit smaller on turn and barrel river as well.

$40 + $70 rather than $60 + $100.

If we are making multi-street bluff but not big bet bluff, I think the act itself, not the sizing, is what make villains fold. So if we can get away with smaller bets, we should.
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:29 PM   #178
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool View Post
Too nitty? I know some of you may lol at me, some may agree...

Villain $160 has been playing pretty average. Seems competent, never played with him. Raised a couple times over a medium sample, his range appears to be strong ish. Table is super nitty, 8 handed game. Villain raises to $8 UTG+1, folds to hero otb with KQ and folds.

How nitty is this? I know I'm not doing great vs his opening range there, but the blinds look to fold, but we are on the button and I'm a winnning player. I figured there isnt much value when he has 80bb, decent player and he hasn't opened light ever. From what I've seen he limps marginal hands in MP on in and raises only strong hands.
I think folding this is too nitty. Online, it was a profitable call for anybody who could salvage a part of his stack when dominated. Live, it is maybe a bit thinner because he will have fewer bluffs in his c-betting range because of the tighter range. If he is at 4%, I guess i could see folding, maaaaaaybe, but if he is at 6% i think I have to go ahead and call. Even if he is at 4%, I still expect him to make bigger mistakes than an online player would make, which should offset some of his hand strength advantage.
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Old 02-05-2012, 09:42 PM   #179
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by BigSkip View Post
I would like some feedback on a hand I played ages ago. Just curious as to what line others would take to maximize value.

1/2 in Tunica, MS. The table is for the most part great. I have position on 3 spew monkeys who are calling large raises, and getting taken to value town when they catch any piece. They love seeing a flop for just about any price.

The key villain in the hand is an older gentleman. Looks like a local, and my first impression on him is that he may be quite tight, if not a bit nitty. I haen't seen him get very involved other than taking down a couple of medium sized pots. One he showed the but flush on the river, and the others he bet the river on fairly dry boards with what I suspected to be two-pairish type hands, but was not called by the spew monkeys.

Stack sizes:
Spew monkeys all have $200-ish, but aren't key to the story.
I have $400+
The key villain is on the button with $350-ish.

The 3 spew monkeys limp, and I am in MP with QQ. I raise to $20. A bit more than normal, but they had paid similar amounts to see flops with 9-2, so what the hey. I had been fairly active in the last couple of hours, mainly playing against the spew monkeys (all nice guys and happily giving chips away).

Key villain on the button minraises me to $40.
Blinds and spew monkeys all fold.

The raise from this villain based on my reads and the habits of the older reg locals in Tunica indicates very strongly he is holding AA or KK, heavily weighting towards AA. This isn't AKs, JJ, or anything else imo.

If I call the raise, I understand I am set mining, and I do not plan to continue past the flop with just a pair.

I am getting about 18-1 calling the extra $20, so set mining seems fine here.

I call.
Pot: $80-ish

Flop:
Q-10-10 r

Gin!

Now the question...
What line do you take OOP to maximize value from this villain?
Donk flop as if "I wanna see where I'm at"
then check turn
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:33 PM   #180
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool View Post
Villain raises to $8 UTG+1, folds to hero otb with KQ and folds.

How nitty is this?
In position, this may be a bit tight. You're not making a big mistake folding here though.
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:22 AM   #181
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Spade Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

$2/$5 NL local card room vs regs.

V1 best player at table. Loose when appropriate, but thinking player. $500
V2 somewhat nitty. $250
Hero TAGish image upon which I am working. $400

History: Usually show the best hand, but after a long series of bad cards In chose in mp to raise to $20 with 72o with the idea of showing regardless to balance my raise. V1 wakes up with hand and re-raises to $60 and I fold and show. Over next several hands I raise and win with big pp's with V2 once commenting, "I have no idea what you have".

Hand;
Hero 810 mp raise to $20. V1 and V2 call.
Flop: A48 rainbow. With an ace on flop I check as this is obvious for one or both their ranges, but surprisingly both check. with history neither normally check an ace here.
Turn is blank.
Hero?
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:46 AM   #182
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Playing a bit earlier than normal and am against an old guy (70s) who seems to know everyone well. He also seems to be tight with his aggression. Limps a lot, but hasn't been raising and bets $7 into $11 pots and everyone insta-mucks. That said, I have only seen him take about 25 hands total and don't know him too well.

1-3nlhe $225 effective.

I open in MP to $12 w/ black kings, folded to villain in sb who makes it $21 (?), I call only

Flop comes QT4, 2 hearts

Villain quickly bets $50, I tank. Everything about this hand feels trappy to me. I fold.

Please flame any street.
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:05 PM   #183
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAG-NIT View Post
$2/$5 NL local card room vs regs.

V1 best player at table. Loose when appropriate, but thinking player. $500
V2 somewhat nitty. $250
Hero TAGish image upon which I am working. $400

History: Usually show the best hand, but after a long series of bad cards In chose in mp to raise to $20 with 72o with the idea of showing regardless to balance my raise. V1 wakes up with hand and re-raises to $60 and I fold and show. Over next several hands I raise and win with big pp's with V2 once commenting, "I have no idea what you have".

Hand;
Hero 810 mp raise to $20. V1 and V2 call.
Flop: A48 rainbow. With an ace on flop I check as this is obvious for one or both their ranges, but surprisingly both check. with history neither normally check an ace here.
Turn is blank.
Hero?
Your average LLSNL player is very capable of checking A-rag, 2p, and sets. Don't be surprised if that kind of garbage turns up here. So I would bet for value but obviously fold to any aggression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny 99 View Post
Playing a bit earlier than normal and am against an old guy (70s) who seems to know everyone well. He also seems to be tight with his aggression. Limps a lot, but hasn't been raising and bets $7 into $11 pots and everyone insta-mucks. That said, I have only seen him take about 25 hands total and don't know him too well.

1-3nlhe $225 effective.

I open in MP to $12 w/ black kings, folded to villain in sb who makes it $21 (?), I call only

Flop comes QT4, 2 hearts

Villain quickly bets $50, I tank. Everything about this hand feels trappy to me. I fold.

Please flame any street.
Flop is a snap fold. His preflop range is QQ+ (maybe even KK+) and now you beat nothing. If he isn't as nitty as you assumed, you'll find out later and can adjust your play accordingly. For now, I'd assume old guy is old nitty guy.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:17 PM   #184
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAOxEaglex View Post
Your average LLSNL player is very capable of checking A-rag, 2p, and sets. Don't be surprised if that kind of garbage turns up here. So I would bet for value but obviously fold to any aggression.
My history with these two is that V1 always bets his made hands, and V2 is a tight ABC player that usually would bet TPGK to MK here, but possible look to get a cheap showdown with a weak ace.
On the turn I bet $40 getting V1 to fold but V2 calls. I'm guessing draw here so I'm betting any safe river - and the river card was a blank. I gather chips for a bet, all the while watching villian out of corner of my eye because many times on the river a villian who is weak will insta fold when you line up chips. Villian is definitely doing something with his cards. I stack a $80 bet and as I begin to slide it towards the line I notice he has turned over an ace.
Hero?
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:41 PM   #185
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

2/5 $100 max bet

V is a horrible regfish. Calls any sized raise wide if he has a hand he wants to see a flop with. Usually donks out on flop with TP+ with an overbet, check/calls draws and underpairs. Sometimes reverses these trends, donking out with draws or (more rarely) c/call with TPNK-2p. (~400)

Hero has been pretty quite, due to card deadness. Not joining in on 5+way limps often, and (sadly) has been c/f when he has, as he's been flop-dead as well. Raising between $15 and $40 (depending on number of limpers) and either taking it down on flop with c-bet, or folding due to action (usually from V above) before it gets to me indicating that mhing. (covers)

2 Limpers to Hero OTB, who raises to $35 with J:spade J (raise sized as though V is one of the limpers, due to his super-sticky PF nature)

V cold-calls from BB, limpers fold. His range for this is anything he considers a playable hand. Any two broadway, any suited ace, any pair, almost all suited connectors, one-gappers, or KXs.

Pot: $90
Flop: A J 3
V checks (damnit) This pretty much eliminates an ace from his range, as he'd almost always smugly donk it, especially with the FD out.
Hero checks back. I was willing to risk the flush coming in here to try to let him catch up and/or sense weakness, so I can somewhat get paid. He's almost sure to fold to a c-bet without an ace, unless he has the FD. Thoughts on this line?

Pot:90
Turn: Flop: A J 3 J
V checks (double-damn)
Hero: ?? Especially with the max of $100 per bet, I have to bet here to try and build the pot and just take the chance that he has nothing he can call with, yes?
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:01 PM   #186
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
2/5 $100 max bet

V is a horrible regfish. Calls any sized raise wide if he has a hand he wants to see a flop with. Usually donks out on flop with TP+ with an overbet, check/calls draws and underpairs.
Bet flop! If Villian will c/c with the flush draw or underpair, why not bet here? Put in a 1/2 PSB and let him try to catch up. Then when the J hits, maybe he finds himself with a flush that you're destroying.

As played, bet (of course). Maybe you can over bet here to make it look bluffy -- like you are repping a flush that you don't have? Sometimes you won't get any value here, so you want to maximize the value when there's a chance to get _any_. (OK, that logic is weak.)
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Old 02-16-2012, 04:58 PM   #187
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/2- simple preflop question

Villain is in CO with $160 and is weak tight, straightforward postflop. Don't see him ever folding an overpair to the board postflop. Hero is in BB with 66. Villain raises to $11. Stacks are shallow, and hes straightforward enough that we can win sometimes OOP. Folds to hero, hero calls or folds? Stacks are a bit shallow 80bb effective.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:09 PM   #188
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Is he prone to folding to 3bets? Is your image conducive to believable 3betting?

$160 is just about deep enough to be calling and trying to outplay him. 3betting also has its merits. Folding is out of the question against a weak-tight player HU IMO.

I liked this thread. The only problem was that, occasionally, people would post not-so-simple questions that would eat up the whole thread for awhile.
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:54 PM   #189
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

^^^ Thanks for the feedback

disagree with the 3bet pre against his range, since we flip with some of his range and he doesnt fold better and he's not deep so no maneuverability. 66 is not solely set mining but I want to allow myself a chance to stack 80bb during the times we flop a set and hes straighforward enough that we can take it down unimproved oop. Thought folding may be ok actually, but calling was best and I wanted to make sure of that
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Old 02-16-2012, 11:46 PM   #190
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I'll tell you what. I'll comment on your hand if you take a swing at mine above. I like a call, but not just for set mining. Also to take it down on many dry flops and float some wet ones if he's w/t and will fold to a scare card.

Folding is always fine HU OOP with 66 too, but think call is better even with somewhat shorter stacks.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:49 AM   #191
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I'm just wondering what everyone thinks about bluffing at 1-2...

Lately, I've been crushing my local 1-2 games without running any big bluffs. I raise and isolate preflop, often continuation bet, but thats as far as big bluffs will go. All of the players are loose/passive calling stations, and I don't see the point of trying to bluff them off pairs. They hate folding.

Do you guys think I'm leaving money on the table with this mentality, or playing it right?

There are so many times I see weak hands go to showdown and think "I shoulda bluffed at that" but in reality, they wouldnt fold anyway


And even when I'm playing tight, noone believes me. They still call. Because I raise my value hands big, and don't limp too much, they think Im FOS
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:59 AM   #192
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

On this table, you're playing it right. Spots to bluff more than one street at $1/2 are few and far between.
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Old 02-17-2012, 02:44 AM   #193
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I think I am checking too since he donks all made hands. If you say he smugly donks any ace to charge Fd, then you nearly have to eliminate it from his range. I dont mind the check back at all really. Turn I like a medium sized bet since he probably wont fold any high FD. Just pray he checked an ace on the flop even though its doubtful at this point. I would charge the max he calls with with his draws. Since the board is paired I like just a 1/2 psb on turn
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Old 02-17-2012, 02:46 AM   #194
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Petey since you are making good money and they hate folding, I would keep doing what you're doing. If it aint broke dont fix it imo
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:12 PM   #195
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Hero has 44 UTG and has an aggro TAG image if villains pay attention. Villains are weak tight and limpy, some with MUBS and their betting is usually the nuts and if not, its never ever for thin value as its polarized (general)

Hero is UTG with 44 and folds. Correct bad or marginal at a limpy table? It's kind of mixed, table is limpy but scared money so set over set with a lot of action is definitely a decent part of villains range if I flop say bottom set. At the same time villains are not raising so I get in cheap a lot of the time. Also seen villains raise small ish with big pairs so any raise I can limp/call relatively profitably assuming they stack alot on "safe" boards. Being OOP sucks so I like to fold alot when in EP even with these set mining hands.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:29 PM   #196
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Easy fold, I like to have position or tag along from the blinds with my small pairs.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:34 PM   #197
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool View Post
Hero has 44 UTG and has an aggro TAG image if villains pay attention. Villains are weak tight and limpy, some with MUBS and their betting is usually the nuts and if not, its never ever for thin value as its polarized (general)

Hero is UTG with 44 and folds. Correct bad or marginal at a limpy table? It's kind of mixed, table is limpy but scared money so set over set with a lot of action is definitely a decent part of villains range if I flop say bottom set. At the same time villains are not raising so I get in cheap a lot of the time. Also seen villains raise small ish with big pairs so any raise I can limp/call relatively profitably assuming they stack alot on "safe" boards. Being OOP sucks so I like to fold alot when in EP even with these set mining hands.
All limped small PP should be very profitable from any position at this table. PP are especially good from utg when a lot of your mubs opponents will worry that you're limping utg with aces and raise even less of their range.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:13 PM   #198
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post

2 Limpers to Hero OTB, who raises to $35 with J:spade J (raise sized as though V is one of the limpers, due to his super-sticky PF nature)

V cold-calls from BB, limpers fold. His range for this is anything he considers a playable hand. Any two broadway, any suited ace, any pair, almost all suited connectors, one-gappers, or KXs.

Pot: $90
Flop: A J 3
V checks (damnit) This pretty much eliminates an ace from his range, as he'd almost always smugly donk it, especially with the FD out.
Hero checks back. I was willing to risk the flush coming in here to try to let him catch up and/or sense weakness, so I can somewhat get paid. He's almost sure to fold to a c-bet without an ace, unless he has the FD. Thoughts on this line?

Pot:90
Turn: Flop: A J 3 J
V checks (double-damn)
Hero: ?? Especially with the max of $100 per bet, I have to bet here to try and build the pot and just take the chance that he has nothing he can call with, yes?
I would 1/2 pot it on the turn. This is the only way you might win a PSB on river. From the sounds of it, he will call with a and then donk river flush spike.

The only thing worse than winning nothing with the immortal nuts is winning a $25 river bet
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:15 PM   #199
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAOxEaglex View Post
I liked this thread. The only problem was that, occasionally, people would post not-so-simple questions that would eat up the whole thread for awhile.
This is true. I have been guilty of this.
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:19 PM   #200
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pay4Myschool View Post
Hero has 44 UTG and has an aggro TAG image if villains pay attention. Villains are weak tight and limpy, some with MUBS and their betting is usually the nuts and if not, its never ever for thin value as its polarized (general)
Stack sizes are important to have a good answer here. Mostly it is marginal. But it is also nice to be a limper and join the party if you have been card dead. Also if you have been aggro since they will see you check fold constantly.
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