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Old 06-02-2013, 08:07 PM   #1426
corlath
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Okay I take it back, 100 buyins is clearly excessive if you are even a moderately winning player, assuming you also have 6 months of expenses covered.
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Old 06-02-2013, 10:30 PM   #1427
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1 limper, I open KK to $12, SB calls and limper calls.

Flop is 764r, SB donks out for $12, field player folds, I raise to $36.

(Turn is an A and he donks $80 and I muck, but I'm wondering about the flop line)
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:22 AM   #1428
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

loose 2/5 game, this hand with a 10 utg straddle
utg+1 with only about 150 limps we have 33 next to him(blahblah bigger stack and 1 shove loving shorty on the blinds also), would like to pop but afraid to get shoved over by him, dont wanna limp because most likely will get squeezed...
what to do...
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:24 AM   #1429
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongBlondeHair View Post
loose 2/5 game, this hand with a 10 utg straddle
utg+1 with only about 150 limps we have 33 next to him(blahblah bigger stack and 1 shove loving shorty on the blinds also), would like to pop but afraid to get shoved over by him, dont wanna limp because most likely will get squeezed...
what to do...
Fold here IMO. You still have a lot of players to act behind you. You do not want to put in 10 and have to fold. You do not want to raise and have to fold or call it off. It is not profitable to ship here to pick up the dead money.

Small pocket pairs are good hands in the right spots. This is one of the worst spots.

That is the best I can do with the information you have given. If you were a little more descriptive I may be able to do a little better. However, some important details are missing.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:28 AM   #1430
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

loose 2/5 game,
Hero opens to 15 with JcTc gets called by 2 players (main villain with 1,5k-same as hero other stacks at the table considerably low) 1 player on the btn and the bigger stack on BB
f 9c95 checked to hero who bets 30 into 45 and gets c-raised by bb-big stack to 90...
in game i folded without much consideration but thinking about it afterwards,
does he really raise 9 there not likely... should have called or re-popped that not sure what tho..
And can continue on every club/t/j and im kind of sure t/j gives me the best hand anyway.... or he was just trying to build the pot to get it in if he had 9x.. his range was very wide for sure when calling on the bb

My image - aggressive good young player, and his image was the same but somewhat more passive sometimes preflop. Have not been at that table long enough to know more.

Last edited by LongBlondeHair; 06-03-2013 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:28 AM   #1431
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by Hustle247 View Post
Fold here IMO. You still have a lot of players to act behind you. You do not want to put in 10 and have to fold. You do not want to raise and have to fold or call it off. It is not profitable to ship here to pick up the dead money.

Small pocket pairs are good hands in the right spots. This is one of the worst spots.

That is the best I can do with the information you have given. If you were a little more descriptive I may be able to do a little better. However, some important details are missing.
Thank you, sounds really reasonable another small leak removed. These spots are just sooo rare.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:31 AM   #1432
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by derada4 View Post
1 limper, I open KK to $12, SB calls and limper calls.

Flop is 764r, SB donks out for $12, field player folds, I raise to $36.

(Turn is an A and he donks $80 and I muck, but I'm wondering about the flop line)
Turn is a definite fold.

I say you should call on the flop. This board is not the kind of board you are looking to play a big pot with when you have one pair and are pretty much dead when you are behind.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:32 AM   #1433
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Thank you, sounds really reasonable another small leak removed. These spots are just sooo rare.
No problem at all! Keep working hard! That is what it takes!
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:35 AM   #1434
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongBlondeHair View Post
loose 2/5 game,
Hero opens to 15 with JcTc gets called by 2 players (main villain with 1,5k-same as hero other stacks at the table considerably low) 1 player on the btn and the bigger stack on BB
f 9c95 checked to hero who bets 30 into 45 and gets c-raised by hijack to 90...
in game i folded without much consideration but thinking about it afterwards,
does he really raise 9 there not likely... should have called or re-popped that not sure what tho..

My image - aggressive good young player, and his image was the same but somewhat more passive sometimes preflop. Have not been at that table long enough to know more.
What was the flop with suits?
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:36 AM   #1435
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Okay I take it back, 100 buyins is clearly excessive if you are even a moderately winning player, assuming you also have 6 months of expenses covered.
Thanks a bunch for this!
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:38 AM   #1436
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Edited now had some mistakes in original JcTc post.
So flop was 9c95
95 were random suits no fdraw there besides backdoors
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:41 AM   #1437
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by xxMaquiladoraxx View Post
Like any BRM question, it really depends on your comfort level. Are we talking about playing for a living or just casually? An appropriate answer is somewhere between 5 and 100bi depending on your specific situation/goals.

The day you stop looking at your game critically is the day you stop improving.
Thank you for this! It is greatly appreciated!

I am looking to play seriously and have such a bankroll that assuming I am a winning player I will never go broke. Also, it is important for me to be comfortable to avoid tilt. I think somewhere in the area of 50 buy-ins will do this for me but obviously the more the better.

I constantly look at my game critically.
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:44 AM   #1438
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongBlondeHair View Post
Edited now had some mistakes in original JcTc post.
So flop was 9c95
95 were random suits no fdraw there besides backdoors
Do you have position on the guy who raised the flop?
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:47 AM   #1439
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by corlath View Post
I am a strong proponent of the idea that you should be looking at your game critically after a 0 buyin downswing.
Thanks for this! I am also of the opinion that you need to constantly evaluate your game. Even when you are not losing!
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Old 06-03-2013, 02:53 AM   #1440
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by LongBlondeHair View Post
Edited now had some mistakes in original JcTc post.
So flop was 9c95
95 were random suits no fdraw there besides backdoors
The obvious answer hear is to fold. Depending on your reads you have some other choices. If you are fairly certain this guy does not have a 9 you may opt to float and see what he does next or come back over the top of him on the flop. If you think he will bet the turn again without a 9 you obviously would come over the top on the flop. If you feel that your opponent would not fire another barrel without the 9 you could float and then take a stab at the turn. It is best to have position when you consider floating especially in this situation. If you try to float here out of position you are operating in the dark. You need to feel pretty strongly about your read to make one of these ladder two plays. However, if you are correct they could very well be profitable as you have some fold equity and outs to improve your hand to the best hand.
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:07 PM   #1441
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

3 Hands at $1/$2

1.

Hero $200 with AT in MP limps, 4 other limps

Flop ($10): AJ3
EP bets $10
Hero Calls $10
LP Calls $10

Turn ($60): 6
EP checks
Hero checks
LP checks

River ($60): 5
EP checks
Hero checks
LP bets $25
EP calls $25
Hero? (underepped hand, checks on the turn smell of weak A or strong J?)

2.

Hero $200 with AJ in MP $5 straddle on BTN 4 limps to the flop

Flop ($20): AK4
EP checks
Hero bets $15
LP calls
EP calls

Turn ($65): 6
EP checks
Hero checks
LP bets ($25)
EP calls
Hero calls

River ($140): 7
EP checks
Hero checks
LP bets $25
EP calls
Hero??? (Similar to Hand 1. underepped, small river bet sizing seems like a call?)

3.

Hero $200 in MP
Villain $200 in BB (Villain does not like Hero, no real reason why, but on the table Villain tries to beat Hero with worse hand/bluff/suck out consistently, villain also does not care about the stakes, money is not an issue)

Hero in MP with KQ raises to $20 after 2 limps (knows Villain will call almost any worse hands for any amount, and raise every big hand that has Hero dominated)

Villain calls $20

Flop ($45): J94
Villain checks
Hero checks

Turn ($45): J
Villain checks
Hero checks

River ($45): Q
Villain bets $30
Hero??? (raise or call, since she is prone to bluff anyway and will def bluff since I checked twice?)

Thanks
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:20 PM   #1442
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1.

I'm cool with just limping into a pot with Axs, even big suited ones as they play fine multiway.

Any reads on EP? If EP was tightish, I think I could probably find a fold on the flop (tight EP guys usually don't lead weak Ax hands into the world OOP). Otherwise, I think I'm ok with calling, especially since we might have some backdoor outs to bail us out.

I think I also just check the turn. We're in a 3 way pot, plus any reasonable bet sets us up for only a PSB left on the river; if it goes bet/call behind us, I let it go; even a single bet behind us into two opponents by a non-crazy opponent I probably let it go unless it's a very attactive price.

When the turn checks thru and EP checks the river, I go for a bet for value here on the river, probably around 1/2 PSB. As played, even though we've really underrepped our hand, there's not a heckuva lotta Aces we're ahead of; it's a pretty tough overcall. The tighter EP is calling, the more I fold; the more droolerish he is, the more I call; ditto for LP's betting tendencies (is he happy to show down weak hands or even Ax here or will he bet hands as weak as Jx cuz he really has no clue what else to do?).

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:29 PM   #1443
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

2.

With the straddle on (effectively making this a 40bb game), I'm more apt to raise large preflop, and pretty comfortable stacking off postflop on any TP hand. I don't think limping is horrendous though.

I'd probably also bet the flop.

I'd just check/fold the turn against everyone except the most bluffiest of bluff monkeys. Even though it's checked to him, the Villain did just bet into two opponents when the most obvious draw got there. If we call, we're going to have close to only a PSB left, we have no draw, and even making trips / two pair on the river doesn't really help things (except perhaps convince us to stack off when behind).

As played, we are getting crazy good odds to call, but we really shouldn't have gotten ourselves into this situation. I think I still even fold as I just don't see too many worse hands betting the river here once we call the turn (and this small bet is expecting a call 100% of the time).

I think we made our decision preflop. If we're limping, then we can't commit stacks with just TPGK postflop. If we're raising, then we could easily work towards commitment on the flop.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:36 PM   #1444
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

3.

I like the raise preflop to get it HU in position vs a guy with a grudge.

Normally I'd probably lean towards betting this flop (overs + gutshot + backdoor flush + FE against small pairs). But against a guy looking to outplay us, I don't like risk getting check/raised here. I like the check back.

I also check back the turn. A bet now is going to look FOS, so we're going to get looked up by any hand that is ahead of us with the possible exception of Ax hands.

I would just call the river. A raise sets us up for a horrible spot if she is capable of a bluff shove. She mostly just has air here (so a raise only sets us up to lose to a bluff shove), mixed with some very weak hands (that are unlikely to call a raise), or a better hand (AQ/Jx/etc. that is never folding).

Gnicehandifyoucalledtheriver,imoG
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:42 PM   #1445
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
1.

I'm cool with just limping into a pot with Axs, even big suited ones as they play fine multiway.

Any reads on EP? If EP was tightish, I think I could probably find a fold on the flop (tight EP guys usually don't lead weak Ax hands into the world OOP). Otherwise, I think I'm ok with calling, especially since we might have some backdoor outs to bail us out.

I think I also just check the turn. We're in a 3 way pot, plus any reasonable bet sets us up for only a PSB left on the river; if it goes bet/call behind us, I let it go; even a single bet behind us into two opponents by a non-crazy opponent I probably let it go unless it's a very attactive price.

When the turn checks thru and EP checks the river, I go for a bet for value here on the river, probably around 1/2 PSB. As played, even though we've really underrepped our hand, there's not a heckuva lotta Aces we're ahead of; it's a pretty tough overcall. The tighter EP is calling, the more I fold; the more droolerish he is, the more I call; ditto for LP's betting tendencies (is he happy to show down weak hands or even Ax here or will he bet hands as weak as Jx cuz he really has no clue what else to do?).

GcluelessNLnoobG
FWIW LP in both is a new player to the game, but already I have noticed has a propensity to bet when checked to, and most of the time has air or 2nd/3rd pair, EP in hand 1 is a Female who is fairly straightfoward and would have raised any AJ+ but could have PP, EP in hand 2 is a loose passive fish. I failed to mention these aspects because they make the check/call decisions more straightfoward
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:29 PM   #1446
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

agh on hands 1-3. MUBs and nits galore.

Seriously start raising hands pre and bet/folding most streets like it's a hobby.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:52 PM   #1447
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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agh on hands 1-3. MUBs and nits galore.

Seriously start raising hands pre and bet/folding most streets like it's a hobby.
MUBs?
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:55 PM   #1448
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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agh on hands 1-3. MUBs and nits galore.

Seriously start raising hands pre and bet/folding most streets like it's a hobby.
This is great advice for like 95% of our hands imo, especially against weaker passive players. Bet until raised, then fold (obviously with the bottom of our value range not when we have boats). Should be a mantra when playing passive fishies.

Quote:
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MUBs?
Monster's Under the Bed.
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:02 PM   #1449
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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agh on hands 1-3. MUBs and nits galore.

Seriously start raising hands pre and bet/folding most streets like it's a hobby.
+1
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:24 PM   #1450
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor View Post
agh on hands 1-3. MUBs and nits galore.

Seriously start raising hands pre and bet/folding most streets like it's a hobby.
But if we feel we can make more money off of weaker hands calling, because we DID NOT raise, why should we not keep taking this underepped hand approach if A3-A7 is calling us when we have TPGK?

In my opinion, loose passive 1/2 games, a Raise and a c-bet on a A high board is never getting called light
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