Meh, I ended up raising to 160 and folding them out. My rationale was that any spade, 3, 6, 8, or face card could freeze the action and make it hard for the other two players to put more money in with a lesser hand. However, I can't help but feel that I ended up value cutting myself...

Found my homework for tonight!

Sounds about right. I raise, he 3-bets big, I fold.

.20/.40 Home game 5 handed

Game is playing pretty loose aggressive with most pots being seen 3+ways

Effective stacks are $55

Raise $1.60 UTg with A2 called by CO and Button

Flop ($6.20) A74

C bet $4 get called twice

Turn ($18.20) 6

Bet $20 Co folds and Button jams for $30 more

This is a hand from a friend who does not use 2p2 and he said he was mostly concerned with whether or not he should b/c or b/f OTT, but my question is should he be betting the turn at all?

Critiques are welcome on all streets but really looking for flop and turn advice

fold pre. don't raise UTG with weak aces, even if they're suited. if he wants to limp, meh, but i don't mind limping with hands that can make the nuts.

he got a pretty nice card on the turn - he has a draw to the nuts. but he's not getting the right price.

we also have no read on villain. but i'd say he has two pair or a set here about 90 percent of the time.

So if you were in his spot first to act OTT would you be more likely to c/c? is this a good spot to c/r maybe?

Yeah, I mean, hindsight is 20.20 ... I pick up equity on the turn, so in game I'm probably betting again. It's one of my leaks - a little too aggressive. This is probably a good spot for pot control. Villain is just never folding better. And he has better here. So, no, check/raise is probably bad.

I agree with basically everything you said except i think he folds almost all of his single paired Ax's that aren't AK/AQ/AJ. I guess there is also a chance he checks back better and if we miss OTR we are in a weird spot where we should be good but aren't sure if we should bet

Thanks for the input!!

1/2 game local club (not casino), players A, B and C to the right of me play lots of raised pots together/against each other, with some pretty crappy hands. Also good ones of course. They're basically running the table, and I'm folding lots of speculative hands I might limp or overlimp because they're likely to raise it up.

I (250) am perceived as tight, and weak postflop. A (400) is a female who is pretty good at sensing weakness. B (125) is the tighter of the three, but still plays LAG. C (106) is a gambooler.

I have had some suspicion that the three may be involved in some collusion, with the raising up of pots. Also they are showing each other folded hands, but not the rest of the table. However I have nothing solid.

They have been talking loudly and having a good time, and I've been talking it up with them--just folding mostly, but mixing it up a little bit with the other players at the table who are less crazy.

A raises to 10 UTG (this means virtually nothing as she has shown down a raise and c-bet OOP with 92o), B and C call. I pick up AsAd...I can't just call and let everyone get in. I make it fifty. A calls, B folds, C says "ahhh, was about to go anyway" and calls.

Pot 163, flop 893 rainbow. A says to C, "well you basically have to shove if you caught any part of that" which is of course true..and he does. I think for a while because while the pot is huge and I could easily shove here, A just loves getting me to fold and I might get her to shove all in on me, to isolate between her and C. And, if they ARE colluding, she would almost certainly do that...so I just call.

She thinks for a long while and fingers her stack, but just calls. I'm certain that she almost shoved. Turn is a 4 putting two spades out. Now I'm thinking if C happened to have me beat, I have to get it all in vs A here, to keep her from drawing and to make a side pot. I shove for 144 more. She thinks for a long while before calling.

How was my play? Standard? Should I have just shoved the flop?

NH.

I mean, yeah, you could shove the flop over top of her call, but the money is going in either way at this point I suspect.

Did she suck out on the river and that's why you question the hand?

Nope, she had TJ, river was a blank and my AA held up for a huge 3-way pot. Guy C showed a queen. So Q8+? Maybe minus QK and QA which he might reraise girl A with preflop

I question the hand because I normally play very scared against these three players. They tend to take over the table, and I know that if I get involved with them, I'll be put to decisions for large amounts of money, so it's pretty scary for a life nit.

Maybe I just want to reassure myself that I *can* play strong against these guys.

The most fun part of the whole hand was when, after guy C called preflop, I got a little nervous thinking, "well, here we go, hope nobody outflops me..." and realized Girl A was watching me. I look up and she's got a little smirk on her face (standard) because she senses my nerves, and I say with a laugh, "Shut uuuup." She laughs, and the flop comes out and the hand proceeds as described.

Both A and C left after that hand, and B left maybe half an hour later.

1/2 $200 9-handed

Table Composition: It's early on a weekday night, 2 $1/2 tables running and $2/5 hasn't gotten started yet, so it's a bit more reggish and less recreational than the typical weekend nights I'm used to. Betting seems more aggressive than usual postflop (larger bets, more barrels) but a lot of passive play preflop. Despite the "seriousness" of these players, the table still seems good and somewhat spewy.

Hero ($180): Relatively quiet, tight. Checked the nuts after rivering OESD against the loosest/spewiest player at the table (he checked back).

Villain (covers): ~40ish guy who looks pretty "serious" ... headphones, scowling, seen him raise pre and take a couple pots down with c-bets.

Preflop:
4 limpers in the field, sb completes
Hero checks in the bb with K2

Flop ($12):
226
Hero checks, Villain in MP bets $15, Hero calls.

I get really confused when I flop trips with these weird hands (especially OOP). I have a general rule that I should bet bet bet flopped trips but I can never seem to follow it. I've taken a lot of weird passive lines in hands like this that have villains convinced by the river that I never have trips. I think that this is a leak. Out of the bb it's just so easy for me to have a 2 here I think than any aggressive action on my part turns my hand face up, the super super dry board factors in to that thought too. The fact that he slightly overbet the pot makes me think twice.

Turn ($42):
2265
Hero checks, Villain bets $30, Hero takes some time to think (at this point I'm giving him a bit of a MUBSY range) calls.

River ($102):
2265K
Hero has $133 behind.
Hero?

Ugh. Normally I would CRAI here, but V has seen you check the nuts OTR before and may be unwilling to fire again without the top parts of his range. I prob try it anyway, as most of his range is 77-TT, and if we bet into it, he's unlikely to be calling, but it *should* still bet for value.

Bet/fold river for ~$45. He is never raising with worse and is most likely checking behind 77-TT.

I can't endorse any line that involves folding when we lose to exactly 3 plausible combos (66).

I agree with Garick that CRAI is best here. His calling range of a donk will be fairly tight given that there are no missed draws you could be bluffing, but with these stack sizes he may accidentally pot commit himself.

But I think you're overthinking things on the flop. Just lead. or at least c/r.

Yeah, after the hand I realized I was somehow blind to this part of his range.

How would you have played if you had 6x or 77-TT here?

I think it would have been better to lead flop then check turn if he calls. If he has 2x, he'll bet again, if he just has 6x, you can bet 1/3-1/2 PSB river after he checks behind and milk 2 streets anyway.

As played, you have to bet this river. Don't ever ever ever expect villains to bet rivers for you. Obviously this is a bet/call and not a bet/fold btw.

f40, you gotta bet bet bet yo'. The great thing about bet bet bet lines is each new street villains think you are more FOS. Flatting and then being aggressive on later streets is where alarm bells come off.

The K otr was a bad card for you, not good. I think its pretty clear why.

I still overjam here. Its in my blood. Checking is terribad, if you think he has an elastic calling range with whatever pp he has then bet like $40-50. Never folding obv.

After trying c/r, try probe/raise. I am guessing it works against this guy.

RESULTS:
Hero jams. Villain quickly makes a disgusted scoffing noise and releases his hand.

It was at this moment I realized I could almost certainly narrow villain's range to 77-TT, a range of hands I had somehow been blind to throughout the hand. He undoubtedly thought his overpair was best all along and that hero got lucky to catch a king. If not for this small display of emotion from villain, I may not have ever realized how poorly I had played this hand and how poorly I had ranged him.

I knew I had to bet the river based on my previous mistake checking the nuts when I should have jammed. I also had my mind made up that villain's hand was strong enough to call a large bet. A smaller bet on the river would have been ideal, I think.

Thanks for all your input.

The more important piece of information to consider was not that your shove was only a "slight overbet" of 33% of the pot. It was that the previous bet was $30 and yours was $130.

Bet-sizing is something I have to improve on, as well. Like when someone leads out for $25 and gets like 4 callers to make the pot $175 - you can't bet 150-175 next street even though that is a reasonable bet according to the pot. People don't see things that way.

Also, don't forget the other possible mistake in this hand. Leading the flop is probably better since, when you check flop, whenever you decide to get aggressive on future streets it just looks so scary. Especially against a possibly competent villain, you have to play the first streets as if you had 6x. That's the only way villain will pay you off with less than a 2.

Good point, and you're right, I was only thinking about pot size.

$1/$2. Villain is a loose passive player that bluffs occasionally.

Preflop: button straddle to $5. SB (villain) calls in SB, Hero in MP raises to $20 with AA, villain calls.

Flop is 3TJ , pot $45, eff $350

Villain donks $25. Hero makes it $60. Villain calls.

Turn is 6 , pot: $165, eff $290

Villain once again donks $100.

Hero?

I can't imagine a passive player is donking the flop, calling your raise, and then donking the turn with less than two pair. You have made it pretty clear that you have a big hand and he doesn't care. I am folding here.

Edit: This could be a butchered KK or QQ but not often enough that I want to play for stacks to find out, and if we call this turn, we are playing for stacks on the river.

Suppose villain is instead A) a loose aggressive player; or B) unknown?

I actually thought the guy was a loose aggressive player before this hand, but thinking back the only loose plays I can remember out of him were a couple bluffs and bad calls, not persistent aggression throughout a hand.

So I was fooled into thinking I'd be good here and shoved. He had JT for 2 pair. Donk out on the flop makes a little sense I guess because a lot of my range has draws, and if I have an overpair I'm obviously continuing in the hand.

TAO, you are hands down my favorite poster in this forum. Your stuff is 100% spot on and posted in a clear/humble rationale.

I am having to remind myself as well to remember sizing in terms of previous bet, like sometimes you will bink a multiway called flop ott, bet 3/4 pot and everyone looks at you and gasps...lol.