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Old 03-26-2013, 06:58 PM   #1251
Garick
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Generally, I think he's bluffing at least 50% here, but I hadn't seen an overbet from him before (other than into small flops for pot building), so I don't know if that reduces his bluffs (more risk) or increases them (less chance of a call)

The turn check was def in part to induce, as well as pot control, and I'd planned on snapping off a bet of 20-25 from him on a blank river.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:17 PM   #1252
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

so what ended up happening>?
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:28 PM   #1253
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

i'm folding. can't see him overbet bluffing into two players.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:08 PM   #1254
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
Generally, I think he's bluffing at least 50% here, but I hadn't seen an overbet from him before (other than into small flops for pot building), so I don't know if that reduces his bluffs (more risk) or increases them (less chance of a call)

The turn check was def in part to induce, as well as pot control, and I'd planned on snapping off a bet of 20-25 from him on a blank river.
When you check back the turn, the perception is that you don't have a strong enough calling range to an overbet on the river (unless there is plenty of history and dynamic between hero and villain). Therefore, imo the overbet here is much more a bluff/merge than a pure vbet. So, I has to believe your 2pair is good here 50% of the time, which makes a call profitable.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:18 PM   #1255
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Thanks for thoughts all. No dynamic, was first time playing with V. I came to the same conclusion as endodoc and called, though I wasn't particularly happy about it.

Results:
Spoiler:
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:17 AM   #1256
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I'm certain that I was on a bit of winners tilt in this hand and played it terribly.


Some background: V1 has around 300 and is a younger fat white guy. Hasn't been super active and has a shown to be a bit of a calling station. He doesn't like to give up on PP's and seems like a slightly losing player. I cbet him vs him HU on my first hand and he folded and that is the one hand we've played so far. He is buddies with V2 from a home game. They have a small dynamic going on vs each other but nothing hyper aggro. He has seemed fairly passive.

Villain 2 is skinny white kid with ear buds and sun glasses. Has around 600. . Maybe a little less since I can't recall if he still had his two black chips. He is a total fish. Has been opening a ton of hands for 5-10 dollars, cbetting with air, calling down with weak pairs. Some how has been running over the table simply because it's an all time great 1/2 game. People have been calling his TPWK type hands. He has just lost a few 50-100 dollar pots so he's down from his stack high of 800.

Hero is a white kid and has been playing fairly tag. I've been opening to 15 and quite frequently since I've been getting hit with the deck. I just doubled up to 600 when I 3bet AA vs a old fish with QQ and we get it in on the turn on a Jack high board.

Hero is on the button. 2 limpers and V2 opens in the HJ for 5. Hero looks down at red KK. I 3 bet to 25 (way too small but was hoping for action HU). V1 calls after about a second of hesitation. V2 also calls fairly quickly. I gave V1 a range of AJ+/66+ with maybe some suited junked mixed in. I struggled to put V2 on a good range since he has folded vs my 3bets previously and his 5 dollar open hadn't been indicative of any kind of hand strength. I was hoping to get heads up with him and never expected a flat out of V1 since he had seemed reluctant to mix it up with me.

Flop is Ah8d3s.
V1 Checks, V2 Checks, Hero checks.

I probably should of fired a cbet here but I hate firing with KK multiway in 3 bet pots on Ace hi boards. Live read just made me feel like V1 has a decent Ax a lot and wasn't going to fold.

Turn is a 7h.

V1 bets 35, V2 Folds, Hero?
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:31 AM   #1257
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Flat, or turn your hand into a bluff. V has something, and it's very likely AX, but with $35 into $75 we really can't fold here. Against a less stationy player, I might try to get him off weak aces, but given villain profile that is probably lighting money on fire.

I'd generally flat getting redic odds and having SDV against the hands that would fold to our raise. I plan to check back most rivers if checked to and fold most rivers if he makes any kind of real bet.

BTW, I like your line until now. I don't think $25 was too small a 3-bet. We want action after all, and checking back KK multi-way on an A-high board is just good sense. People play so many crappy aces and they are so reluctant to fold them.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:15 PM   #1258
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I think a slightly larger bet makes defining V1 hand a lot easier. I do think its ok most of the time but my 15 and 20 dollar opens were getting called 5+ ways so I'm probably just losing value by only 5x it.
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:11 PM   #1259
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Unfortunately this is a fold, there are way more weak aces in his range than under pairs, and when a passive calling station bets, he isn't going anywhere with even a weak ace. Not to mention a raise would be a bluff that doesn't represent anything here.
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:26 PM   #1260
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Feel better about how I played now that I got some second opinions. I debated raising for about 3 seconds and then just decide the same thing that he had way more Ax hands in his range and folded. I felt like I played it so weak but think I caused this by betting so small preflop.
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:36 PM   #1261
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I don't like the fold, given how small the bet is. This is likely a tell that he doesn't love his hand, and while there is a huge amount of A-rag in his range, there are also a bunch of underpairs that think that you have air after checking the flop. We probably lose this hand more often than not, but getting over 3-1 on our call, I think we really have to. If he does have an underpair, or even a weak ace, our call will likely freeze him and we can realize our SDV by checking back river. If he bets for realz, we toast, and can fold.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:02 AM   #1262
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Argh. So last night I played a 2 1/2 hour session. I did not rake in a single winning hand the whole time and the best hand I had all night was KQ. The last hand I get JJ and raise PF. There had been maybe 1 or 2 3bets the whole night, and wouldn't you know, I get three bet, call the bet, and the flop comes K97. I call one more bet OTT when I get a double gutter and just promptly leave the table when a blank comes OTR.

But that's not my question. My question here is....what exactly do you do in a situation like I was in last night? Going absolutely card dead, not hitting a flop when you do pla a hand like 97, and in general not being able to play many hands? I know what I did last night was probably wrong in folding almost every hand (I had a VPIP of like 5% no lie) in that it completely destroys any image we have, but I also know that we can't just play bad cards because we're not getting cards, especially at 1/2 where it's "lol i can fold?!?! I didn't know this!" So what's the balance with nights like those?
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:19 AM   #1263
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If you didn't have 2-3 hour stretches of being card dead at 1/2 you're probably spewing

As far as image recovery goes, table changing should wipe the slate clean. Quitting is also an option, especially if you catch yourself chasing post flop.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:45 AM   #1264
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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If you didn't have 2-3 hour stretches of being card dead at 1/2 you're probably spewing
This.

A few weeks ago I played a 5 hour session and my two best hands were AJss and 77. No joke.

Last Friday night I played a 7 hour session, hit 4 sets and got AA THREE times. Literally smacked in the face with the deck.

Poker is a good metaphor for life, it's all about balance. Keep your cool in the down times and don't spew, and maximize your ups in the good times and really enjoy the run/fun of it.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:30 PM   #1265
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Thanks for the advice Illiterate and Avaritia! I guess we all go through sessions like that. It still sucks folding so much and seeing K6 OTB for the 5th consecutive time, but there are run goods to balance the run bad. And the best thing to do with those run bad sessions are to just get up and play another day.

I guess it is deserved. My last session, despite an average run of cards, I did manage to hit 5 sets in 6 hours of play (really during the last 3 hours of play) so it does balance.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:11 AM   #1266
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You will be card dead for hours. Lately I try and just quit if I find myself being bothered by it. I have a hard time recovering my table image in those spots and it's usually better to just quit. I have played many of a session where my first open in three hours is three bet. I think this is one of my small leaks. I play fairly tight in EP. If I go on a bad run of cards, I find my action killed and start trying to pick bad spots due to "trying to appear like a gambler" when in reality I'm just bored.

But my last session was four hours where I just ran over the table due to AKx4 and Kk and Aa twice. It takes patience.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:57 PM   #1267
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Assume this is a simple bet-fold on the turn. Brain isn't really firing today and sometimes lately feel like I'm overplaying hands like this (blowing away worse hands).

Hero opens KsJh in MP to $20, HJ flats, BB flats. HU to the flop. Cbet $40 on a 6h3c2h flop, HJ calls, Bb folds. Hero Bet-Folds turn Kc $85 (Villain made it $190)

No real dynamic or good reads. We had played together for about two orbits without anything exciting.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:09 AM   #1268
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As played, the turn is fine. However I'm not really a fan of opening KJo from earlier than HJ unless I have all nits or super stations to my left. That flop is a very poor one to c-bet, especially into two opponents. I c/f flop.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:02 AM   #1269
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

$200 NL with $300 effective stacks. Villain is to my left and is a loose aggressive player that regularly takes small shots at pots but tends to straighten up when he gets involved in a big hand. I have a tight image.

Hero is in MP and opens for $7, Villain calls from the HJ, everyone else folds, flop is J53 with two diamonds. Standard c-bet or c/f?
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:26 PM   #1270
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

.5/1 home game. 6 handed. 3 fish and 3 LLNL regs. Effective stacks about 150. APD opens for 2.25 UTG. I call with QTo. Spewy fish calls OTB. flop AQTdd. APD leads for $6. Hero?
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:15 AM   #1271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
.5/1 home game. 6 handed. 3 fish and 3 LLNL regs. Effective stacks about 150. APD opens for 2.25 UTG. I call with QTo. Spewy fish calls OTB. flop AQTdd. APD leads for $6. Hero?
Raise - APD range is a lot more AK here than sets. Too many cheap draws to not start making them pay. Keep betting until played back at, then fold.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:05 AM   #1272
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Raise him.. he sucks and has been getting coolered all night!!!!! LOL.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:45 AM   #1273
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

2/5:

SB: $350 - 40-something, pretty much plays his hands face up. Bets his made hands, calls his draws.
UTG: $750 - 20-something unknown, carries himself like a decent player (Dr Dre headphones, chip tricks, decent bet sizing)
Hero (BTN): covers - tight, clean image

UTG opens for 20, 2 callers, I overcall with 65, SB calls, BB folds.

FLOP (pot 100): 554

SB checks, UTG bets 60, 2 folds, SB begins pushing 60 in during Hero's action before being stopped by the dealer...

What's your play?
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:01 PM   #1274
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
2/5:

SB: $350 - 40-something, pretty much plays his hands face up. Bets his made hands, calls his draws.
UTG: $750 - 20-something unknown, carries himself like a decent player (Dr Dre headphones, chip tricks, decent bet sizing)
Hero (BTN): covers - tight, clean image

UTG opens for 20, 2 callers, I overcall with 65, SB calls, BB folds.

FLOP (pot 100): 554

SB checks, UTG bets 60, 2 folds, SB begins pushing 60 in during Hero's action before being stopped by the dealer...

What's your play?
You're in position...I flat expecting an over call here.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:06 PM   #1275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illiterate View Post
2/5:

SB: $350 - 40-something, pretty much plays his hands face up. Bets his made hands, calls his draws.
UTG: $750 - 20-something unknown, carries himself like a decent player (Dr Dre headphones, chip tricks, decent bet sizing)
Hero (BTN): covers - tight, clean image

UTG opens for 20, 2 callers, I overcall with 65, SB calls, BB folds.

FLOP (pot 100): 554

SB checks, UTG bets 60, 2 folds, SB begins pushing 60 in during Hero's action before being stopped by the dealer...

What's your play?
We are on pace to have stacks by river and with position we can be a little patient- so I am going to let UTG continue to bet at least one more street and hope for a blank turn, then pop it on turn to give the draw from SB the wrong odds, yet small enough to expect a call from UTG's likely over pair.
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