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Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

10-13-2012 , 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharaohofFUNK
1/2 home game

hero in mp with 7c7h, bought in with 100bb and just lost a pot the hand before and haven't added back on yet, i have 80bb everyone else covers.

utg+1 makes it 8, i call, button calls, sb calls.

flop($30ish): 6d7d9c, sb leads 20 utg+1 calls, hero shoves 150 into 70.

is there any other way to play that?
not really, no.
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10-15-2012 , 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharaohofFUNK
1/2 home game

hero in mp with 7c7h, bought in with 100bb and just lost a pot the hand before and haven't added back on yet, i have 80bb everyone else covers.

utg+1 makes it 8, i call, button calls, sb calls.

flop($30ish): 6d7d9c, sb leads 20 utg+1 calls, hero shoves 150 into 70.

is there any other way to play that?
meh. don't like it. probably going to get a lot of hands you are way ahead of to fold. make it $75.
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10-15-2012 , 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlerpOne
I have heard people say that they like to use large/small denomination chips in different situations at llsnl order to confuse villains by making the pots bloated/hard to count. Do any of you do this? what situations? Aint it better if they dont know pot size etc...
People seem more likely to chase/call when the pot is physically bigger. This is why a 4/8 or 6/12 limit hold em game with the $1 chips often seems to have more action than a 5/10 game using only $5 chips.

I have also had opponents comment to me that they knew I had a hand when I used a larger denomination chip because they thought I would be reluctant to give up big chips, as players like to acquire them and hang onto them.
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10-15-2012 , 02:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
People seem more likely to chase/call when the pot is physically bigger. This is why a 4/8 or 6/12 limit hold em game with the $1 chips often seems to have more action than a 5/10 game using only $5 chips.

I have also had opponents comment to me that they knew I had a hand when I used a larger denomination chip because they thought I would be reluctant to give up big chips, as players like to acquire them and hang onto them.
yeah, lol at that logic. Oooh he bet green chips. He must really have a hand.

I see the other side too ... People want to fight for green chips.
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10-15-2012 , 11:32 AM
A lot of old men at 2-5 start freaking out when they get green chips. For instance, old man rebuys at the table, dealer starts chopping out greens, old man freaks and starts barking 'red! only red!'

Why does this happen?
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10-15-2012 , 12:26 PM
1/2 Casino Niagara

Hero SB with AA

3 limps Hero raises to 12 (400 stack)
two calls

Flop 10 6 4

Hero leads 20
Villain Raises to 45 (150 Behind)
Fold

I don't put villain on a set and just call.

Turn J

Hero?
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10-16-2012 , 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveinkolb
meh. don't like it. probably going to get a lot of hands you are way ahead of to fold. make it $75.
If I make it 75 I'll only have 75 left on the turn and I felt like I'd be put in a really stupid spot on the turn if a diamond, T or an 8 came. I think the majority of hands that would call 75 on that board would be draws so wouldn't it be better to just get it*in on the flop? I don't think there's a huge difference between 75 and 150 if someone has a big draw there.
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10-16-2012 , 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eazye1269
1/2 Casino Niagara

Hero SB with AA

3 limps Hero raises to 12 (400 stack)
two calls

Flop 10 6 4

Hero leads 20
Villain Raises to 45 (150 Behind)
Fold

I don't put villain on a set and just call.

Turn J

Hero?
U have a villain whom u believe doesn't have a set, and he is willing to put more money in, why flat and have almost half the deck kill ur action ott?
It's not about what u have, if he doesn't have a set, his hand is really weak given this board and alot of cards will make him slow down ott
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10-16-2012 , 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
People seem more likely to chase/call when the pot is physically bigger. This is why a 4/8 or 6/12 limit hold em game with the $1 chips often seems to have more action than a 5/10 game using only $5 chips.

I have also had opponents comment to me that they knew I had a hand when I used a larger denomination chip because they thought I would be reluctant to give up big chips, as players like to acquire them and hang onto them.
I meant more along the lines of making the pot look bigger or smaller to induce a villain to draw or fold.
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10-17-2012 , 12:11 PM
When you find an exploitable PF situation, how often do you take advantage of it IP? How about OOP?

Example: 1/2NL

V1: 4 seats to your right, opening lightish (20-25%), with noticeable sizing tell. When he opens for 12, it's in the weaker part of his range, 15 is the stronger part. Doesn't vary based on limpers. Pretty straightforward in pots where he's not the aggressor, but much more aggressive postflop when he is.

V2: 3 seats to your right. Calls a lot PF, very tight 3bet range. Flop play is pretty reasonable in 3bet pots, but doesn't like to fold after putting in money postflop.

Hero, V1, V2 are all 450BB+ deep.

There's a couple shortstacks (~50BB) to your left that aren't adjusting to the dynamic.

So there's going to be a lot of 12-15BB (depending on limpers) pots that can be pretty easily taken down with a 3bet. Are you just going to abuse it until they adjust, or try manage your image to keep the dynamic constant? And why?
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10-17-2012 , 12:22 PM
1/3 NL, 10 handed

Preflop (10 players): Hero is SB with A K
UTG straddles to $6, Villain1 in EP calls, Villain2 in MP calls, another limper, Hero makes it $35, Villain1 and Villain2 are only callers

Flop (3 players, ~$115): J 8 7
Hero checks, Villain1 checks, Villain2 shoves for $60 (about 1/2 PSB), Hero...


Villain 1 ($500) seems to be playing fairly ABC. I believe that when I check to him on the flop that he is betting any made hand due to drawyness of board and fact that Villain 2 is shortstacked with 1/2 PSB left (i.e. he ain't concerned about letting V2 draw for free, but he would be concerned about letting deepstack me draw for free, and of course he doesn't mind if he's coolered vs V2's shortstack). So when he checks the flop, I feel he is done with the hand.

Villain 2 ($95) just called off 1/3 of his stack preflop. Need I say more? When the preflop raiser (me) and V1 check, I think he could be putting in the rest of his chips fairly wide here. Air, draw, one pair, almost anything really.

Hero ($1200), probably look fairly aggro preflop but getting the money in good postflop. The majority of my stack has come from two recent coolers (AA > KK on Q high flop that was 4bet preflop, QQ > AK on AQx flop that was 3bet preflop).

I'm getting almost 3:1, pretty much the odds I need against a pair if my overcards aren't reverse dominated. There are also times I'm drawing slim/dead (two pair, sets, straights), and other times I'm actually ahead (air, draws).

If I'm pretty sure V1 is done with the hand, ok to call?

P.S. I didn't think this was a great flop to cbet, although I guess I coulda just bet V2's stack and see what happens?

Gcallingall-in'sontheflopwithAhighasifit'sthenutsG
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10-17-2012 , 12:53 PM
I would raise more pre with $24 in the pot already.

I probably fold with your hand. Draws are hurting your outs.

If you wanted to call here I think just c betting is better (but I think it's a bad board to c bet)
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10-17-2012 , 12:53 PM
GG,

If you're considering calling because your hand holds up decently against V2's range, then you're almost certainly better off cbetting the flop and taking advantage of any potential FE given V1 is playing ABC. I still probably c/f unless V2 is flatting really wide in this spot.
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10-17-2012 , 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rumor
I probably fold with your hand. Draws are hurting your outs.
I'm concerned about currently being behind AND having my outs tainted by draws? If I'm assuming V1 is done with his hand, what hands could V2 have that fit this description?
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10-17-2012 , 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppaTMan
GG,

If you're considering calling because your hand holds up decently against V2's range, then you're almost certainly better off cbetting the flop and taking advantage of any potential FE given V1 is playing ABC. I still probably c/f unless V2 is flatting really wide in this spot.
I think I would have cbet a dryer board, but I'm still deep (well, not really, smallish SPR with this pot size) against V1 plus OOP. Plus by checking I allow V2 to ship with ATC (which he might in this spot, something he would never do to a bet).
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10-18-2012 , 04:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharaohofFUNK
If I make it 75 I'll only have 75 left on the turn and I felt like I'd be put in a really stupid spot on the turn if a diamond, T or an 8 came. I think the majority of hands that would call 75 on that board would be draws so wouldn't it be better to just get it*in on the flop? I don't think there's a huge difference between 75 and 150 if someone has a big draw there.
I was going to say the same thing ... I can't see raising to 75 and leaving yourself with 75 behind making any sense here.
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10-18-2012 , 11:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
I'm concerned about currently being behind AND having my outs tainted by draws? If I'm assuming V1 is done with his hand, what hands could V2 have that fit this description?
I wasn't assuming V1 was done.
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10-18-2012 , 11:50 AM
I think it is a mistake to think V1 is done with the hand if your only reason to think so is because he didn't bet the flop. I would expect most villains to check a hand like AJ there. I also expect him to call if you call with some hands he would have folded if you folded because the pot is bigger and he thinks he has the right odds to chase a weak draw now.
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10-18-2012 , 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
I think it is a mistake to think V1 is done with the hand if your only reason to think so is because he didn't bet the flop. I would expect most villains to check a hand like AJ there. I also expect him to call if you call with some hands he would have folded if you folded because the pot is bigger and he thinks he has the right odds to chase a weak draw now.
I just don't think V1 checks most pairs here, especially TP. I've checked in a 3way pot, board is drawy, he's got a shortstack behind him (which he'll be fine getting all the chips in with a mediocre hand).

I could see him checking a draw here, so if he's got a draw, then it's definitely possible he's not done with the hand and I hate life if he overcalls.
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10-18-2012 , 12:35 PM
My experience is that a lot of players won't bet top pair when the preflop raiser checks to them, fearing some sort of trap. Don't make the mistake of assuming that another player will do what you would do in their spot. I think a lot of posters here tend to underestimate the probability that a villain will play a possible best made hand passively on a drawy board.
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10-18-2012 , 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
My experience is that a lot of players won't bet top pair when the preflop raiser checks to them, fearing some sort of trap. Don't make the mistake of assuming that another player will do what you would do in their spot. I think a lot of posters here tend to underestimate the probability that a villain will play a possible best made hand passively on a drawy board.
I think this is definitely true in a HU case (where people can often play tricky), and definitely not true in a very multiway pot (where people typically play a lot more honestly). 3way flop is kinda that inbetween grey area.
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10-18-2012 , 01:57 PM
In a multi-way pot, some players are reluctant to bet top pair hands unless they have position because they doubt they have the best hand with so many people in.

Many players are reluctant to bet unless they think they are likely to have the best hand if called or if they are sure they don't (that is, if they are bluffing). You would have to draw upon past hands to get a sense of how suspicious V1 would be of you trapping.
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10-26-2012 , 11:23 AM
Weird value optimization situation I ran into.

V1. BB Female player I have run into more then once. Loose and more passive then aggressive, but not a total fish. She likes to chase flushes and straights but also steals a lot on the turn when any flush or straight card comes in. $250

V2. MP Unknown fish. Seems very loose and very passive but I only saw him play a couple of orbits. Stack has been bouncing up and down wildly. I lost one hand to V2 when he called my preflop raise and flop bet with Q8s and caught two pair on the turn to beat my AQ tptk. $150

Hero CO, just returned from a short break, have not been at table long anyway. I missed the big blind, so I'm posting to get back in rather then wait an entire loop. I've been raising a lot at the table so far because of a string of strong hands preflop. $310

Hero posts $3 before cards are dealt.
V2 calls $2
Hero has 63o and checks.
SB folds
V1 checks.

Pot is $8
Flop is K76 rainbow
V1 checks
V2 checks
Hero checks

Pot is $8
Turn is 7 with backdoor spade draw.
V1 contemplates hard and checks
V2 checks
Hero checks

Pot is $8
River is 6 non-spade
V1 bets $5
V2 considers and makes an obviously weak call.
Hero?

I decided against betting bottom pair on the flop because I didn't think I could represent much and would probably get 2 calls. On the turn, V1 considered betting but checked. This pins her range at weak Kx hands. Potentially I could blow her off a hand here, but I would have to bet hard on turn and river because she isn't going to give up to one bet.

On the river I'm pretty sure I'm good. V1 has a weak K. There is a remote chance V2 is slow playing a 7 but if so he is doing a great acting job, I'm putting him on a weak K or a pocket pair. I'm going to raise, but I was really unsure of what to raise here. How much do you expect to get paid in this sort of situation?
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10-27-2012 , 03:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
Weird value optimization situation I ran into.

V1. BB Female player I have run into more then once. Loose and more passive then aggressive, but not a total fish. She likes to chase flushes and straights but also steals a lot on the turn when any flush or straight card comes in. $250

V2. MP Unknown fish. Seems very loose and very passive but I only saw him play a couple of orbits. Stack has been bouncing up and down wildly. I lost one hand to V2 when he called my preflop raise and flop bet with Q8s and caught two pair on the turn to beat my AQ tptk. $150

Hero CO, just returned from a short break, have not been at table long anyway. I missed the big blind, so I'm posting to get back in rather then wait an entire loop. I've been raising a lot at the table so far because of a string of strong hands preflop. $310

Hero posts $3 before cards are dealt.
V2 calls $2
Hero has 63o and checks.
SB folds
V1 checks.

Pot is $8
Flop is K76 rainbow
V1 checks
V2 checks
Hero checks

Pot is $8
Turn is 7 with backdoor spade draw.
V1 contemplates hard and checks
V2 checks
Hero checks

Pot is $8
River is 6 non-spade
V1 bets $5
V2 considers and makes an obviously weak call.
Hero?

I decided against betting bottom pair on the flop because I didn't think I could represent much and would probably get 2 calls. On the turn, V1 considered betting but checked. This pins her range at weak Kx hands. Potentially I could blow her off a hand here, but I would have to bet hard on turn and river because she isn't going to give up to one bet.

On the river I'm pretty sure I'm good. V1 has a weak K. There is a remote chance V2 is slow playing a 7 but if so he is doing a great acting job, I'm putting him on a weak K or a pocket pair. I'm going to raise, but I was really unsure of what to raise here. How much do you expect to get paid in this sort of situation?
Are you getting to showdown often with these made hands? If so then just call river. If you have a more spewy image I'd consider raising only if you comfortably knew V1 was contemplating a semi-bluff OTT rather than making an obvious trap-check to induce wider calling ranges OTR. Meh I'd probs call in your spot but it seems kinda weak tbh
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10-27-2012 , 03:41 AM
I think this hand is kinda borderline, from last night. JJ+ I'm definitely 3-betting but 88- I'm probably folding here. I have no reason for cold-calling in this spot ever.

$2/$3 Blinds

Hero has been out drinking and decide to sit down at 2am to play for a few hrs when everyone bailed. Everyone knows I was drunk, and I think their obvious perception of me is playing aggressive in position and 3betting a polarized range about 1/2 the time with value hands and 1/2 with garbage and showing them the hands, I knew these players weren't the type to adjust to or even remember the lines I took on certain board textures with these hands so I didn't mind showing for lols.

V1 (~$200) calls a little bit light and did against me in one instance (AFTER this hand) where I x/r KhJh on 4s5sJc to induce him to play back at me with all of his bluffs and value hands because I know he was capable of doing so. He shoved and I called and he showed QJ. The last orbit to this hand he 3b UTG+1 with Jh8d when UTG semi-fish straddled to $15 preflop. He also 3b AKss in a similar manner in MP when EP had opened pre. His 3b and open sizing is consistent with all hands preflop. Not a bad player but not great.

V2 ($180) A bit more switched on than V1 but will make obvious plays IP to bet all his air to try steal the pot when facing weakness HU or even 3-way. Hand selection is kinda solid and won't make any ridiculous calls.

8 handed

V2 is in SB, posts $2
Hero is BB, posts $3 and is dealt TdTs
UTG folds
UTG+1 semi-fish (blind raises and opens wide a bit) raises to $15
UTG+2 folds
V1 (HJ) 3bets to $45
CO folds
BTN folds
SB cold calls $45
Hero ??

Is this a shove given stack sizes? I don't like cold calling here ever. What hands are we shoving, cold-calling or folding given both players are semi-aggressive post-flop?

Last edited by spooner90; 10-27-2012 at 03:55 AM.
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