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Old 06-17-2021, 11:15 AM   #8651
gobbledygeek
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by Vancouver View Post
Even if UTG has only AA/KK, I think we can continue due to our implied odds.
For example, if you can extract at least $85 from her after you call the $25 raise, then calling here with QQ would be +EV
How are you coming up with only needing to extract $85 postflop? If this is to do with the fact that QQ is about a 4:1 dog to an overpair, then this is a big mistake because that is assuming we get to see all 5 cards postflop (but we won't if we're only setmining). So setmining we have to guarantee ourselves at least 8:1, and in reality even a *lot* more than that (due to overpairs still beating our flopped set by the river about 10% of the time, KK likely not paying off stacks on AQx flops, etc.).

ETA: So with $300 stacks and almost positive we're setmining against AA/KK, we'd currently only be getting IO of 12:1, which is way too thin, imo. At $400 stacks you'd be getting 16:1 which is starting to get into the acceptable ballpark and likely okish. I'd snap at $500 getting 20:1.

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Last edited by gobbledygeek; 06-17-2021 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 06-17-2021, 11:34 AM   #8652
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Now that gobbledygeek seems to be backing me up, I'm worried I made a huge mistake :P
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Old 06-17-2021, 02:23 PM   #8653
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Sorry Yeodan/GG, yes you are correct in that I only looked at us being a 4 to 1 dog due to us having 18% equity, which you pointed out as being the incorrect way to calculate our IO. Thank you for clearing that up(!) and well noted on having instead to calculate our odds of hitting our set on the flop.
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:56 PM   #8654
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/3, $250 effective. HJ opens $18, CO calls, BU calls, we’re in the BB with AA. Sizing?
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Old 06-18-2021, 05:03 PM   #8655
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Even if we made it only $50ish, that would offer the first guy pretty poor 8:1 IO (if CO calls, then Button would be getting still quite poor 10:1 IO). And even though OOP, we're almost going to see no flop which we'd consider too gross at this stack depth with AA (unlike KK- as flops can start getting uglier). I'd probably just go a more "standard" looking 3x $60ish as we can likely get away with that and we do want the action.

Although I'd also wonder what I would do with AK here, and at this depth I'd either go $70 (to shove all flops) or I'd even just rip it in preflop. So if looking to balance a bit, I think that would be ok too.

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Old 06-18-2021, 09:24 PM   #8656
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Either around $80 or just shove, both seem fine here imo.
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Old 06-19-2021, 05:32 PM   #8657
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by sdfsgf View Post
1/3, $250 effective. HJ opens $18, CO calls, BU calls, were in the BB with AA. Sizing?
Three times the initial open, one for being out of position, and one each for the idiot flatcallers make for a total 6x the original open. Make it $108, and then shove any flop.

Alternatively, since the $108 is more than a third of your stack, get it in then and there.

I think I would go with the first option, because LOLive 1-3 droolers don't understand esoteric mathematical abstractions like SPR.
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Old 06-19-2021, 06:09 PM   #8658
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I make it $90.
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Old 06-20-2021, 01:07 PM   #8659
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

2/5 Game 8 handed when a dream scenario comes up. Drunk maniac sits down and just proceeds to God-mode run up his stack. Opens $50-$175 with almost any 2 and tries to bluff every spot. He opens Q10o $100, guy jams and he snap calls for $1000. AK no good with 10 on the river ftw. (This happens over and over.)

Villain is to the left of me and announces this is his last hand. I've been disgustingly card dead and have topped off as much as my pockets allow this session. I post the BB and he puts $200 in UTG in the dark. Folds to button who calls ($2500 eff), SB fold, it's on to hero with 64 $3800 effective.

Anyone fold pre?

I call and flop is AA5 ($600)

I check, hero looks at his hand and bets $500, button tanks and calls.

Anyone fold here?

I call. Turn AA59 ($2100)

Checks through.

River 7

Hero?
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Old 06-20-2021, 01:49 PM   #8660
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Although I'd also wonder what I would do with AK here, and at this depth I'd either go $70 (to shove all flops) or I'd even just rip it in preflop. So if looking to balance a bit, I think that would be ok too.
Yeah, I just went with "what would I do with AK" approach, which at this stack depth/open sizing/flat callers would usually be just to shove. I got a caller (and was good) but felt a little sheepish turning over AA here after the ~14x shove.
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Old 06-20-2021, 11:41 PM   #8661
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarshMan114 View Post
2/5 Game 8 handed when a dream scenario comes up. Drunk maniac sits down and just proceeds to God-mode run up his stack. Opens $50-$175 with almost any 2 and tries to bluff every spot. He opens Q10o $100, guy jams and he snap calls for $1000. AK no good with 10 on the river ftw. (This happens over and over.)

Villain is to the left of me and announces this is his last hand. I've been disgustingly card dead and have topped off as much as my pockets allow this session. I post the BB and he puts $200 in UTG in the dark. Folds to button who calls ($2500 eff), SB fold, it's on to hero with 64 $3800 effective.

Anyone fold pre?

I call and flop is AA5 ($600)

I check, hero looks at his hand and bets $500, button tanks and calls.

Anyone fold here?

I call. Turn AA59 ($2100)

Checks through.

River 7

Hero?


this is a very confusing hand history.

how do you both check and bet $500 on the flop? are there 2 heroes in the hand?
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Old 06-21-2021, 12:29 AM   #8662
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Need basic feedback on red KK at 1/3 that I botched recently.

Effective stacks 300, Hero is BB, V IP.

Pre: V $12, H $36, V call

Flop: $73 - 986ccx

H - $36, V Call

Turn - $145 - 7c

1. What sizing should I have used pre and flop?
2. Is turn always an X/F?
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Old 06-21-2021, 01:55 AM   #8663
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Id go closer to 4x out of position. And Id probably check flop
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Old 06-21-2021, 02:41 AM   #8664
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Id go closer to 4x out of position. And Id probably check flop


+1
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Old 06-21-2021, 06:56 AM   #8665
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Why would we check this flop?
We are losing sooooo much value?
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Old 06-21-2021, 07:38 AM   #8666
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

When we 3b BB vs LP our opponent is going to have much stronger hands on this flop than us. Best we will usually have is overpairs or maybe 99 while he can have all sets, 2 pairs, lots of pair+draws that can put a lot of pressure on us if we bet. I’m probably checking my whole BB 3b range on 986cc vs a LP open.
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Old 06-21-2021, 07:40 AM   #8667
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath View Post
this is a very confusing hand history.

how do you both check and bet $500 on the flop? are there 2 heroes in the hand?
Apologies. Apologies all around.

Hero in BB, Maniac Villain UTG, V2 on button.

Instead of posting straddle, Maniac puts $200 in dark before cards are dealt (he has no action on it, it's just a blind raise).

Folds to V on button ($2500 effective) who calls. Gets back to us in BB and we are $3800 effective with maniac holding 64

Anyone fold here?

I call, 3 ways to the flop of AA5 ($600)

I check, maniac bets $500, V2 tank calls $500 on button, I call.

Turn 9 ($2100)

Checks through.

River 7 ($2100)

Hero's action.
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Old 06-21-2021, 08:35 AM   #8668
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I definitely fold pre and I potentially fold flop.

We have a 6 high flush draw on a paired board where a PSB has been called already by a non lunatic.

River I dont bet but probably check call
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Old 06-21-2021, 11:26 AM   #8669
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by sdfsgf View Post
Yeah, I just went with "what would I do with AK" approach, which at this stack depth/open sizing/flat callers would usually be just to shove. I got a caller (and was good) but felt a little sheepish turning over AA here after the ~14x shove.
If your opponents are slightly more aware and you are more worried about balance here, then I think it's perfectly fine. Nice hand, imo.

The more droolerish your opponents are the more you can just take the more exploitative approach, where I'd be fine with $60ish (and obviously if you feel you can get away with larger then do that). I disagree with others regarding their x + ny approach to sizing and think it should instead be based around the IO we're willing to offer.

GcluelesssizingnoobG
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Old 06-21-2021, 11:36 AM   #8670
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by Starpoker View Post
Need basic feedback on red KK at 1/3 that I botched recently.

Effective stacks 300, Hero is BB, V IP.

Pre: V $12, H $36, V call

Flop: $73 - 986ccx

H - $36, V Call

Turn - $145 - 7c

1. What sizing should I have used pre and flop?
2. Is turn always an X/F?
I'm fairly conservative, so I typically aim to offer 8:1 in IO (targeting setminers) when I'm likely going to be committed postflop. So I would have 3bet to about $50ish preflop. Our 3bet sizing offered IO of 12.5; not horrendous, but a bit more than I'm typically wanting to do. Also may depend on exactly what we have and from where. AA from any position here we're fine with offering larger IO. But the smaller our big pair becomes from OOP, perhaps the more we should be looking to offer worse IO.

SPR is 3.6 on the flop and there ain't an Ace; as expected, we're committed, imo. When committed at a small SPR, and especially when the board is drawy, we should be looking to get in chips ASAP. My default play here would be to PSB the flop to get the rest in on most turns; if Villain is super aggro when checked to, I wouldn't hate a check/shove. So I don't like our sizing (i.e. leaving the small bet sizing stuff for spots when not committed, imo).

Fairly stoopid turn card, and I'm probably changing my commitment plan and check/folding against most.

ETA: Actually, realizing we're in a 3bet pot makes turn a little trickier. If he's not a completely overly loose fish, there's an ok chance he's got QQ-TT, and we only lose to one of those (although we certainly lose to almost everything else he's gotten this far with).

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 06-22-2021, 06:07 AM   #8671
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by MarshMan114 View Post
Apologies. Apologies all around.

Hero in BB, Maniac Villain UTG, V2 on button.

Instead of posting straddle, Maniac puts $200 in dark before cards are dealt (he has no action on it, it's just a blind raise).

Folds to V on button ($2500 effective) who calls. Gets back to us in BB and we are $3800 effective with maniac holding 64

Anyone fold here?

I call, 3 ways to the flop of AA5 ($600)

I check, maniac bets $500, V2 tank calls $500 on button, I call.

Turn 9 ($2100)

Checks through.

River 7 ($2100)

Hero's action.
Trivial fold pre for me, we are a 60/40 dog to villain's range of any two cards plus we're OOP plus villain has made the pot too big to give us room to manoeuver.

Flop I think I should fold for this sizing though I'm enough of a station to make the call in game.

River I check, note we hit our river and are not exactly thrilled about calling big bets which implies we maybe shouldn't be here.
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Old 06-22-2021, 08:43 AM   #8672
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

$1/3/6 (UTG straddle), $250-1k effective with different players

Preflop: I RFI $25 AdAh +1, 3 callers (CO, 2 in the blinds)

Flop ($110): K32r. Checks to me, I bet $35, CO calls (MAWW who has $200 behind)

Turn ($180): K327r. I check, CO bets $40, I xrai ~$200 effective?

Thoughts on xrai turn vs. continuing to bet small? Probably doesn’t matter much in this case since super dry and it looks a lot like she has a king. I’m also very rarely bluffing here (but would rarely be bluffing when I double barrel here also).
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Old 06-22-2021, 10:32 AM   #8673
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Is it important CO is a MAWW or did you just like writing that?

If we bet flop I see no reason to start checking turn.
With 200 left I'd bet around 60 on the turn to set up a river shove.

x/r turn turns your hand face up and will get a lot of Kx to fold.
you're basically forcing your opponent to play correctly, which is never good in poker
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Old 06-22-2021, 10:36 AM   #8674
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Is it important CO is a MAWW
Thats for you to decide
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Old 06-22-2021, 11:29 AM   #8675
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starpoker View Post
Need basic feedback on red KK at 1/3 that I botched recently.

Effective stacks 300, Hero is BB, V IP.

Pre: V $12, H $36, V call

Flop: $73 - 986ccx

H - $36, V Call

Turn - $145 - 7c

1. What sizing should I have used pre and flop?
2. Is turn always an X/F?
I would make the 3-bet 4x out of position, to $48 (I like round numbers, and would make it $50).

On the flop, while we do not have the nut advantage on this board, we nevertheless have a massive range advantage. Basically, in 3-bet pots where we are the last aggressor (i.e. our preflop range is uncapped and the villain's is capped) we should be betting the flop so often that we give up very little by betting 100%. Because the villain does have nutted hands more often than we do, we should be betting small, something like 1/3 pot.

The turn is a definite check, and whether or not we fold depends on how large the villain bets. If they bet something ridiculous like 1bb, we call. If their is a shove, or even sets up a river shove (anything more than $25 or so, given the effective stack), then fold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdfsgf View Post
When we 3b BB vs LP our opponent is going to have much stronger hands on this flop than us. Best we will usually have is overpairs or maybe 99 while he can have all sets, 2 pairs, lots of pair+draws that can put a lot of pressure on us if we bet. Im probably checking my whole BB 3b range on 986cc vs a LP open.
Go to Flopzilla. Go directly to Flopzilla. Do not pass "Go," do not collect $200.
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