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Old 08-01-2012, 12:52 PM   #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtagliaf View Post
I think it's fine - I'm just trying to find the maximum he will call.
Given my nitty image not much
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:08 PM   #727
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/3 NL

Villain ($130) is a middle aged, quiet, ethnic (indian?), male. Only second time I've ever played with him. Seems tightish, passive, straightforward and MUBSy. Earlier he raised with QQ, bet/called a T high flop and then checked the rest of the hand down.

Hero (covers). Big stack at the table, hasn't looked gotten out of line that anyone has seen, probably viewed as playing fairly ABC although on the slight aggressive side.

Preflop (10 players): Hero is BB with Q 5
EP limps, Villain limps in MP, LP limps, Hero checks

Flop (4 players, ~$12): 8 7 5
checked around

Turn (4 players, $12): 5
Hero bets $10, EP folds, Villain calls $10, LP folds

River (2 players, $32): 2
Hero bets $30, Villain shoves for ~$120, Hero...

Super standard bet/fold, right? I'm ahead of 65 and 54, but I think the former could have easily led the flop, and I don't think MUBSiesh players are concerned about their kicker (even though it is "only" for 40 BBs). Other than than I'm behind everything else (I highly doubt this guy plays J5s) and only losing to a bluff (and he seems non-bluffy).

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Old 08-02-2012, 12:13 PM   #728
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Wp if u folded
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:20 PM   #729
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
1/3 NL

Villain ($130) is a middle aged, quiet, ethnic (indian?), male. Only second time I've ever played with him. Seems tightish, passive, straightforward and MUBSy. Earlier he raised with QQ, bet/called a T high flop and then checked the rest of the hand down.

Hero (covers). Big stack at the table, hasn't looked gotten out of line that anyone has seen, probably viewed as playing fairly ABC although on the slight aggressive side.

Preflop (10 players): Hero is BB with Q 5
EP limps, Villain limps in MP, LP limps, Hero checks

Flop (4 players, ~$12): 8 7 5
checked around

Turn (4 players, $12): 5
Hero bets $10, EP folds, Villain calls $10, LP folds

River (2 players, $32): 2
Hero bets $30, Villain shoves for ~$120, Hero...

Super standard bet/fold, right? I'm ahead of 65 and 54, but I think the former could have easily led the flop, and I don't think MUBSiesh players are concerned about their kicker (even though it is "only" for 40 BBs). Other than than I'm behind everything else (I highly doubt this guy plays J5s) and only losing to a bluff (and he seems non-bluffy).

Gjustacheckup,probablytoostandard,notevensurewhyIp ostedthishonestlyG
Yeah pretty easy fold
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:30 PM   #730
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Ya, that's what I thought (and did). Thx for the checkup.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:36 PM   #731
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

@weaselbob, $41 seems a bit much, but not extreme. PSR would be $37 there. I would likely make it $33 (3x his range) or more likely $35 because it splits the difference between 3x and pot.

@G....G, yeah, good place to b/f against this V. Against a V with any sort of aggression I snap this off, but not when a passive MUBSy player shoves the river, I'm out like a fat kid in dodge-ball.
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:02 AM   #732
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I don't think this needs a thread but let me know if it does.

1/2 game, I had just sat down in the last 15 minutes and have not had the opportunity to get any reads on V, who is about 30 years old, generally nondescript, but seems competent in terms of handling chips and cards.

Eff. stacks $150.

UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, fold around to me in SB with A5 who completes, BB checks.

Flop ($6): AK5

UTG bets $5, fold, I raise to $16, fold, UTG raises to $46, I shove.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-06-2012, 09:53 AM   #733
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by sao View Post
UTG bets $5, fold, I raise to $16, fold, UTG raises to $46, I shove.

Thoughts?
Hard to put him on anything except a flush draw here - if he's competent he's raising AA/KK/AK, he can limp with 55 but there's only one combo - I don't think you can fold this one.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:27 PM   #734
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by sao View Post
I don't think this needs a thread but let me know if it does.

1/2 game, I had just sat down in the last 15 minutes and have not had the opportunity to get any reads on V, who is about 30 years old, generally nondescript, but seems competent in terms of handling chips and cards.

Eff. stacks $150.

UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, fold around to me in SB with A5 who completes, BB checks.

Flop ($6): AK5

UTG bets $5, fold, I raise to $16, fold, UTG raises to $46, I shove.

Thoughts?
Was the table limp happy? was there any maniacs? did u see him raise anything before?
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:34 PM   #735
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by sao View Post
I don't think this needs a thread but let me know if it does.

1/2 game, I had just sat down in the last 15 minutes and have not had the opportunity to get any reads on V, who is about 30 years old, generally nondescript, but seems competent in terms of handling chips and cards.

Eff. stacks $150.

UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, fold around to me in SB with A5 who completes, BB checks.

Flop ($6): AK5

UTG bets $5, fold, I raise to $16, fold, UTG raises to $46, I shove.

Thoughts?
lead flop? standard as played, sorry he had AK because well, AK sucks its just a drawing hand obv
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:34 PM   #736
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Why not donk the flop
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:41 PM   #737
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Table appeared to be on the tight side and somewhat limpy. IIRC, I had seen one guy raise after a couple of limpers to $13 and take it down and a couple of $8 raises called in 1-3 spots. And some hands with 3-5 limpers, like the one in question.

Had not seen the V raise a hand before nor get to showdown. Really had no means to range him other than he looked solid. So I am effectively playing this hand blind.

I didn't lead the flop b/c I was looking to c/r.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:25 AM   #738
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/2 game, av stack 300, I have 200, 6 limpers and I have 8c8s in the bb, check or raise?
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:51 AM   #739
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee View Post
1/2 game, av stack 300, I have 200, 6 limpers and I have 8c8s in the bb, check or raise?
I check and setmine all day every day here. Also makes postflop straightforward easy (and putting ourselves in easy postflop situations is often underrated).
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:53 AM   #740
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

It just sucks because if we r playing correctly, 88 crushes their limping range
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:56 AM   #741
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by sao View Post
I don't think this needs a thread but let me know if it does.

1/2 game, I had just sat down in the last 15 minutes and have not had the opportunity to get any reads on V, who is about 30 years old, generally nondescript, but seems competent in terms of handling chips and cards.

Eff. stacks $150.

UTG limps, UTG+1 limps, fold around to me in SB with A5 who completes, BB checks.

Flop ($6): AK5

UTG bets $5, fold, I raise to $16, fold, UTG raises to $46, I shove.

Thoughts?
I probably just donk/donk/donk the whole way to get paid off by an A.

As played, I check/raise more (I like offering poor 2:1 odds here, so I'd make it ~$20). Dude 3betting a flop check/raiser is pretty damn strong; kinda reeks of AA/KK/AK failed limp/reraise attempt preflop. But with two pair with only 75 BB, and the only hands beating us being a little unlikely playway / combowise, and the board drawy, I'm probably shoving as well unless I've got a better read.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:02 PM   #742
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee View Post
It just sucks because if we r playing correctly, 88 crushes their limping range
Who cares? This is a thing that comes up constantly with me preflop here. Yes, our 88 is probably ahead of most peoples limping range. Who. Cares. It's preflop. For $2 or $10 or whatever. Who. Cares. As long as we're not absoluting bleeding money preflop, who cares. The money in this game is made postflop. And here by checking / overlimping / etc. we can see a flop for cheap with 6 morons, flop a set, and win a stack's worth of money. And of course, thanks for our postflop skillz, when we don't flop a set we lose a heckuva lot less money than everyone else does when they play 88 preflop the same way as we do (i.e. reciprocality, or however it is spelled). IMO.

Gseeaflopforcheap,flopahand,stackamoron,buyahotdog ,repeatG
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:24 PM   #743
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Who cares? This is a thing that comes up constantly with me preflop here. Yes, our 88 is probably ahead of most peoples limping range. Who. Cares. It's preflop. For $2 or $10 or whatever. Who. Cares. As long as we're not absoluting bleeding money preflop, who cares. The money in this game is made postflop. And here by checking / overlimping / etc. we can see a flop for cheap with 6 morons, flop a set, and win a stack's worth of money. And of course, thanks for our postflop skillz, when we don't flop a set we lose a heckuva lot less money than everyone else does when they play 88 preflop the same way as we do (i.e. reciprocality, or however it is spelled). IMO.

Gseeaflopforcheap,flopahand,stackamoron,buyahotdog ,repeatG
+1
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:56 PM   #744
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I raise to $20 or fold w 88 in that spot, with no reads I check option. With reads I play it fast if villains are weak postflop
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:57 PM   #745
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee View Post
It just sucks because if we r playing correctly, 88 crushes their limping range
It crushes their individual limping ranges, not the field as a whole. I mean, pot-equity-wise, it's a big overlay, but you'll win way less than half the time overall.


2,241,788 games 13.631 secs 164,462 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 21.356% 21.00% 00.36% 470698 8053.67 { 88 }
Hand 1: 13.089% 11.21% 01.88% 251240 42201.42 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
Hand 2: 13.083% 11.21% 01.88% 251216 42080.25 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
Hand 3: 13.127% 11.24% 01.89% 252014 42266.33 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
Hand 4: 13.131% 11.24% 01.89% 252001 42374.33 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
Hand 5: 13.117% 11.24% 01.88% 251890 42168.08 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
Hand 6: 13.098% 11.21% 01.89% 251347 42300.92 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:05 PM   #746
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtagliaf View Post
It crushes their individual limping ranges, not the field as a whole. I mean, pot-equity-wise, it's a big overlay, but you'll win way less than half the time overall.


2,241,788 games 13.631 secs 164,462 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 21.356% 21.00% 00.36% 470698 8053.67 { 88 }
Hand 1: 13.089% 11.21% 01.88% 251240 42201.42 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
Hand 2: 13.083% 11.21% 01.88% 251216 42080.25 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
Hand 3: 13.127% 11.24% 01.89% 252014 42266.33 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
Hand 4: 13.131% 11.24% 01.89% 252001 42374.33 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
Hand 5: 13.117% 11.24% 01.88% 251890 42168.08 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
Hand 6: 13.098% 11.21% 01.89% 251347 42300.92 { AJs-A2s, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo+, QJo, JTo }
Winning "way less than half the time" in a 7way pot is pretty decent (sitting at 21% is far more than our fair share); if this were limit, we'd probably have to raise it to capitalize on our immediate equity edge. But in NL, we can pass on our small equity edges preflop and simply wait until we have a massive equity edge postflop before putting in our money.
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Old 08-07-2012, 03:35 PM   #747
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I mean if i make it 20, I can get it HU where a cbet on any high board will get plenty of folds...so the key is not to bloat the pot with a 10$ raise, the key here is to thin the field imo...i've been checking it so far but feels like i miss value from 97s

Anyway, how do a "nit" who is viewed as a huge nit profit?
I mean I rarely get action, i get raised alot and have to fold alot, and I get called with tp no matter what....should I just wait for over pairs, 2 pairs +?

I am so confused, they know i'm a nit and yet they still limp/call oop with A2s, call the A high flop, I check behind the turn and they value bet the river...
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:21 PM   #748
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Any thoughts on this hand:

Just moved to this table ... was told it was 'wild and crazy' by the dealer at the previous table.

Villain is Russian (I think) with about $700 in front of him.

I'm only been at the table about 5 hands. So I apologize for not having better reads.

Anyhow, couple of limpers and I make it $15 OTB with AT suited. Three players call.

Flop is A42 with two clubs. I have no clubs. V1 checks, Russian leads for $27. V3 calls, I call and V1 calls.

Turn is a 7. Russian leads for $100. V3 calls. For some reason, I convince myself Russian has to have two pair here to bet this strong. I fold.

River is a K. Russian bets $100. Both opponents fold. He shows an A.

Effective stacks were $342 to start the hand.

Do I raise this flop? Do I check/call the flop and fold like I did?

The more I think about the hand, the more I think I folded the winner.

As likely as two pair, I think more that the Russian flopped TP with the straight draw - A3, A5 ... don't ask me why. Just what my gut tells me after the fact.
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:23 PM   #749
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I know this sounds crazy but u can raise/fold the flop...what is the eff stack
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:26 PM   #750
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee View Post
I know this sounds crazy but u can raise/fold the flop...what is the eff stack
$342.

What do you do if called and bet into OTT? Shut down and fold? Not sure what V1 had, but V3 said he missed his flush draw.
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