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Old 07-17-2012, 09:14 PM   #676
DirtiDan12
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I don't know if this is the right place but here it goes...

I can only buy in for about 30 buyins due to money issues. I know this is not ideal but it's my only option. What is the ideal strategy for playing this short stack? Ive read in another thread that shoving pre over limpers and limp/ shoving is best but with this being my first time playing live and being a predominately online player than this seems a little odd.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:49 PM   #677
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

you mean 30 big blinds?

smaller pairs and connectors go way down in value - you can't win enough when you hit to make up for the times you miss/fold. Broadways go up in value, to the point where it becomes hard to fold top pair, and usually incorrect to fold TPTK.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:54 PM   #678
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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silently thank CO for not having 100BB. You lost 37BB with an overpair. Next hand.
huh? i lost my whole stack. 3 way pot.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:01 PM   #679
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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huh? i lost my whole stack. 3 way pot.
whoops. That's a misread. Sorry about that
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:04 PM   #680
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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you mean 30 big blinds?

smaller pairs and connectors go way down in value - you can't win enough when you hit to make up for the times you miss/fold. Broadways go up in value, to the point where it becomes hard to fold top pair, and usually incorrect to fold TPTK.
Ya my mistake, 30bb. Are you playing more passive or aggressive though? For instance, are you seeing flops with broadways cheaply or raising pre as I've noticed so far that raising it up to 15 after several limpers does not get them to fold that often and I'm still seeing multiway pots so I need to either increase my raise or play more passive pre with these hands and get it in when I hit.
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:24 PM   #681
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Lots of threads on SS strategy, esp in the online strat fora. Generally very tight and VERY aggressive.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:19 PM   #682
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

$5/10 game...effective stacks 170bb. Table is generally very aggro. not many limped pots. Almost every pot is raised pre. 3bets are more common than typical (i'd say 1/4 raised pots are 3betted). From there it's either flatted and post flop begins, or the 3bet takes down the pot.

Villain: in LP. Thinks he is way better than he is. Always "whispers" strat with some of the good regs at the table, looking for justification/acknowledgment/whatever. he knows the basics, but he is squeeze happy, and generally tries to be aggro in spots he shouldn't be and gets into trouble. I get the sense that he thinks people are bluffing more than they actually are. He always raises in LP, and generally raises 1/4 times in EP. he cbets about 90%, but checks a whiffed turn when someone flats him on the flop. When hands get to showdown, he frequently says "I have nothing" or "Ace high"

Hero: in BB has owned villain in this session and a prior session. There is some history here not sure if villain wants to try to outplay hero. I have bluffed him a few hands ago with a $450 river bet into $900 pot with an absolute airball and showed

Random player: in MP. Loose/passive pre, generally passive post, but can be tight (won't call with a FD if a bet is too much) When he raises, it's always QQ+, never Ax

Pre: Folds to Random player open limps. Villain raises to $40 in LP. Folds to hero in BB with AK. hero decides to flat to keep the weak player in and is generally comfortable playing oop against this villain

Flop ($125): KK4

hero should: 1) Donk 2) check/call villlain's cbet 3) ch/raise villain's cbet
**There is a chance flop may get checked through.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:56 PM   #683
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/2 pot donk is probably best here. Nothing worse is calling a c/r, and c/c is bad
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Old 07-23-2012, 01:38 AM   #684
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Villian loose/passive with alot of history with hero. In EP
Hero taggy. Image is crap. Got caught bluffing on Axx vs the villian earlier. In CO
1/2 game with $140 effective.

Hero delt Qd8d

Villian limp, MP limp, Hero bet $16, BTN call, villian call.

Flop ($53): Jd 3s Th
Villian check, Hero bet $40, BTN fold, villian call.

Turn ($133): Jd 3s Th Ad
Villian check, Hero?

Villian dose float the flop with weak hands alot and fold to a turn bet. He also limp/calls with broadways.
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:11 AM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endodocdc View Post

hero should: 1) Donk 2) check/call villlain's cbet 3) ch/raise villain's cbet
**There is a chance flop may get checked through.
I like chk calling to try to drag passive player along and donk most turns
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Old 07-23-2012, 03:12 AM   #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sexdotcom View Post
Villian loose/passive with alot of history with hero. In EP
Hero taggy. Image is crap. Got caught bluffing on Axx vs the villian earlier. In CO
1/2 game with $140 effective.

Hero delt Qd8d

Villian limp, MP limp, Hero bet $16, BTN call, villian call.

Flop ($53): Jd 3s Th
Villian check, Hero bet $40, BTN fold, villian call.

Turn ($133): Jd 3s Th Ad
Villian check, Hero?

Villian dose float the flop with weak hands alot and fold to a turn bet. He also limp/calls with broadways.
Perfect spot to tell you to add on pre!

Chk back, your barrel doesn't have a high success rate bc you don't have enough
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:24 AM   #687
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Thoughts on this hand: Sorry, I don't have all the details. My friend played it and asked me for some advice.

Hero has TT and raises to $17. Not sure of position. We have it after the turn and river, though.

Three callers.

Flop is T52 rainbow. Young Asian kid takes a $20 stab at the pot. Hero just calls. Here she questioned (results oriented) whether it should be raised. But the flop is so dry.

Turn is an 8. Asian checks. She bets $60. It could have been bigger; there's probably $100 in the pot. But, again, she's got a hammerlock on the hand.

River is a 9. She bets $60 again and villain goes all-in. She calls. He tables QJ. The all-in was probably about $40 more.

Standard play? Anything you would do differently?
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:55 AM   #688
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

The only thing I would have done differently is go all-in on the river instead of betting $60. The pot is $220 and we only have $100 left. The asian played it about as bad as (s)he could have possibly played it
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:22 PM   #689
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I find it funny that mentioning the fact that villain is Asian is necessary here lol

You can only be beaten by hands that had zero wins on the flop WHEN THEY BET, and you're also only beaten by hands on turn that made a HORRIBLE turn call. So if they show up with one of those hands it's just bad luck
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Old 07-23-2012, 04:21 PM   #690
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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I find it funny that mentioning the fact that villain is Asian is necessary here lol

You can only be beaten by hands that had zero wins on the flop WHEN THEY BET, and you're also only beaten by hands on turn that made a HORRIBLE turn call. So if they show up with one of those hands it's just bad luck
yeah, that's pretty much what i said - just a horrible suckout by a guy who had no business being in the pot after the flop. but he bet, she just flatted. she thinks if she shoves the turn he still calls with O/E. she's not a good player and plays recreationally, but to win money. has no bankroll. so every loss is tough.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:47 AM   #691
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

$1/2 at Golden Nugget (uncapped)
Villain is nice older lady who looks like a retired teacher. Very limpy-cally PF, and very transparent post. Often l/c OOP and then c/f if missed, donk out if hit. Only thing not standard is that I have seen her bet a FD, and then v-bet for over 1/2 pot when she hit.

V limps, one other limper, hero raises OTB with AsQs to $12. V calls, limper calls.
Pot $36
Flop 6h8h9s
Villain donks for $15 (range is FD, pair with SD, A9, A8, A7, K9s K8s) limper folds
Hero decides to float here, as bet size was pretty small, and there are lots of good turns for us (A, Q, any spade, any scare card if she checks when it hits)

Pot $66
Turn 10h
Villain bets out $11. This just screams "where am I at" to me. Good spot to bluff? Sizing? If yes and called, what is our river plan?
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:28 AM   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
$1/2 at Golden Nugget (uncapped)
Villain is nice older lady who looks like a retired teacher. Very limpy-cally PF, and very transparent post. Often l/c OOP and then c/f if missed, donk out if hit. Only thing not standard is that I have seen her bet a FD, and then v-bet for over 1/2 pot when she hit.

V limps, one other limper, hero raises OTB with AsQs to $12. V calls, limper calls.
Pot $36
Flop 6h8h9s
Villain donks for $15 (range is FD, pair with SD, A9, A8, A7, K9s K8s) limper folds
Hero decides to float here, as bet size was pretty small, and there are lots of good turns for us (A, Q, any spade, any scare card if she checks when it hits)

Pot $66
Turn 10h
Villain bets out $11. This just screams "where am I at" to me. Good spot to bluff? Sizing? If yes and called, what is our river plan?
Very good spot for us to raise, but a lot of her range is 7x's that're made but are afraid of flushes. I think I make it like $60 here and since you never mentioned how deep either of you are it's kinda hard to determine river plans but lets assume each of you started $500 deep, I'd make it $60 OTT and full pot or even greater than full pot the river depending on how I view her turn call and river check.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:14 AM   #693
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
$1/2 at Golden Nugget (uncapped)
Villain is nice older lady who looks like a retired teacher. Very limpy-cally PF, and very transparent post. Often l/c OOP and then c/f if missed, donk out if hit. Only thing not standard is that I have seen her bet a FD, and then v-bet for over 1/2 pot when she hit.

V limps, one other limper, hero raises OTB with AsQs to $12. V calls, limper calls.
Pot $36
Flop 6h8h9s
Villain donks for $15 (range is FD, pair with SD, A9, A8, A7, K9s K8s) limper folds
Hero decides to float here, as bet size was pretty small, and there are lots of good turns for us (A, Q, any spade, any scare card if she checks when it hits)

Pot $66
Turn 10h
Villain bets out $11. This just screams "where am I at" to me. Good spot to bluff? Sizing? If yes and called, what is our river plan?
it really depends on what you have seen from her, i.e. how she reacts to a raise. That's very important. But to answer your question, I wouldn't bluff here. She obv has a hand that she likes enough to donk out flop and turn. She strikes me as the kind that doesn't understand relative hand strength, and may call you down with 2pair.
I'd let it go
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:45 AM   #694
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by sexdotcom View Post
Villian loose/passive with alot of history with hero. In EP
Hero taggy. Image is crap. Got caught bluffing on Axx vs the villian earlier. In CO
1/2 game with $140 effective.

Hero delt Qd8d

Villian limp, MP limp, Hero bet $16, BTN call, villian call.

Flop ($53): Jd 3s Th
Villian check, Hero bet $40, BTN fold, villian call.

Turn ($133): Jd 3s Th Ad
Villian check, Hero?

Villian dose float the flop with weak hands alot and fold to a turn bet. He also limp/calls with broadways.

I think pre is obvious: don't open suited trash for >10% of your stack. You're probably not good enough nor deep enough for this open to be justifiable.

As played: flop bet is okay I guess. And as played, OBV ship turn (like not even close)
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:22 AM   #695
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick View Post
$1/2 at Golden Nugget (uncapped)
Villain is nice older lady who looks like a retired teacher. Very limpy-cally PF, and very transparent post. Often l/c OOP and then c/f if missed, donk out if hit. Only thing not standard is that I have seen her bet a FD, and then v-bet for over 1/2 pot when she hit.

V limps, one other limper, hero raises OTB with AsQs to $12. V calls, limper calls.
Pot $36
Flop 6h8h9s
Villain donks for $15 (range is FD, pair with SD, A9, A8, A7, K9s K8s) limper folds
Hero decides to float here, as bet size was pretty small, and there are lots of good turns for us (A, Q, any spade, any scare card if she checks when it hits)

Pot $66
Turn 10h
Villain bets out $11. This just screams "where am I at" to me. Good spot to bluff? Sizing? If yes and called, what is our river plan?
I just fold the flop. She could have us drawing virtually dead except to runner runner (not exactly fistpumping due to runner runner). Even if we're live, we have like 4 clean overpair outs, and even some of those could be reverse dominated. Plus, she's cally; I don't think we have much FE against her on scare cards.

Certainly does look like a weak "please don't raise me" bet on the turn. But with her showing calling tendencies, I don't think I attempt it, I'd have to be certain she can lay down a straight / etc. here.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:17 PM   #696
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Sorry, forgot stacks in the above post. V has about $215 and hero covers by a lot.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:31 PM   #697
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

$1/3 NL at the Wynn at 4 in the afternoon on a weekday. Table has 2 obv ex online grinders, and two decent TAGs, but also several spots. Another one of my 1 hour sessions on this trip.

V is the most obvious grinder ever. Mid 20s white guy in slacker clothes/grooming and pair of high end headphones, sits down to my immediate right and is greeted by dealer, which obv tilts him because he wants people not to know he's a reg. GL on that. Proceeds to fire up his laptop and play Diablo, text on his phone, and play all at the same time. (which gets other obv regs needling him, including referring to it as "grinding Diablo." Playing very LAG and has opened all buttons and most COs for $15. Only opens I've seen were K9s (showed when 3-bet and he folded) and T8s (exposed to me while he considered action)

Has not 3-bet yet and the one time he was 3-bet, he folded K9s, showing it as though he thought it was evidence that he was opening legit hands, but couldn't handle a 3-bet with that one.

Hero is tight but talkative. Has chipped up with opens followed by c-bets during V's time at table. Chat has made obv that Hero is at least familiar with Black Friday, One Drop, etc. Have folded to all of his opens, as his button opens I'm OOP and his CO opens I have so far had crap.

Effective stacks, ~$400
Villain opens on Button to $15
Hero 3-bets from SB with AQs to $45. I think I have his opening range crushed here, but don't want to play without initiative and OOP.
Villain 4-bets $110 pretty quickly.
Hero: ????
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:37 PM   #698
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Idiots like him think they're too good to actually having to pay attention at the table.

This is an easy fold, because he's unlikely playing above level 1.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:51 PM   #699
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I think 3bet pre is a mistake. AP fold
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:30 PM   #700
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmazonPrime View Post
Idiots like him think they're too good to actually having to pay attention at the table.

This is an easy fold, because he's unlikely playing above level 1.
He's an obvious internet grinder raising 100% of buttons.

1. As an internet player, he is familiar with blind defense. His 4betting range may be wider because of this.

2. While it is true that we have no information on his 4betting range, we can infer from Bayesian probability that we are ahead of this range.

Your statement that villain is just some arrogant idiot also hints that you are also only playing on a simpler level instead of thoroughly thinking. I mean that as constructive criticism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by endodocdc View Post
I think 3bet pre is a mistake. AP fold
Again, we are crushing his opening range and we have the additional incentive of ending the hand quickly since we are OOP.

I don't think a fold to the 4bet is terrible since there is obviously money to be made at other spots at the table but I think 5betting is more EV and I'd shove. It's sort of a sick play and takes balls though.
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