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Old 02-15-2019, 11:51 AM   #6701
iTzLifestyle
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Hoping some online tourney guys here, is this the worst shove ever or standard?

156 left 153 pay, $2 3500 runners. I have 12 bigs left 4.6m (about 4.1m after hand if I fold) I’m in small blind folded to me with K4dd and shove. Over 2bigs dead money in pot, bb was playing 21/9/22.2 over a small sample.
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:55 AM   #6702
Garick
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Have you considered posting this on a tournament forum?
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:20 PM   #6703
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Have you considered posting this on a tournament forum?


I didn’t see any “low stress” threads there, and didn’t wanna start a new one. I’m pretty sure it’s a trrrible shove being on bubble basically. Just wanted some one else to agree it’s terrible or maybe not.
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:50 PM   #6704
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/3. Villain is a relative unknown (only an hour of play together), but reads like a tight/straightforward regular. Hero also tight/ABC & has only shown down strong hands. I'm admittedly quite lost at this 400BB stack depth vs a 4b, so I'm curious what our best option/play/plan is here? Villain covers.

Hero (SB/$1250): K K

UTG r $15, fold x 2, Villain c $15, MP c $15, fold x 2, Hero 3b $75, fold x 2, Villain 4b $250, MP c $75 all-in, Hero ???
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:17 PM   #6705
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I guess you want to be folding? Just really hard to imagine some straightforward guy backraising there with anything but AA.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:24 AM   #6706
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
I guess you want to be folding? Just really hard to imagine some straightforward guy backraising there with anything but AA.
And yet it's also hard to imagine some straightforward guy just flatting with AA in the first place.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:37 AM   #6707
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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And yet it's also hard to imagine some straightforward guy just flatting with AA in the first place.
Less so, I think. No matter what, we have to credit him with having done something weird. The question is: weird and kind of trappy with the nuts, or weird and very aggressive in a scary spot. I think the first option is much more likely. Many LLSNL players love taking weird trappy lines with the nuts, as I've observed many times on here (admittedly more often with the postflop nuts than with AA preflop, but it's a similar principle). Very few LLSNL players enjoy speculative lines trying to bluff people OOP preflop when 400 BB deep. I'm not really willing to credit people with having that in their range without evidence that they are tricky and aggressive.

In spots like these, it's impossible to try to figure out what the guy has or what he's thinking or anything, there just isn't enough information. So I'll fall back on: what are the population tendencies of LLSNL players (like what do they tend to do too often, or too rarely) and is there any evidence that this guy differs from that?
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:02 PM   #6708
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Me Up View Post
1/3. Villain is a relative unknown (only an hour of play together), but reads like a tight/straightforward regular. Hero also tight/ABC & has only shown down strong hands. I'm admittedly quite lost at this 400BB stack depth vs a 4b, so I'm curious what our best option/play/plan is here? Villain covers.

Hero (SB/$1250): K K

UTG r $15, fold x 2, Villain c $15, MP c $15, fold x 2, Hero 3b $75, fold x 2, Villain 4b $250, MP c $75 all-in, Hero ???
If the villain had called the blind and then backraised, I would put more weight on the AA theory; but they flatted a 5x open. I see this move a lot and the villan generally has a medium pocket pair, puts you on AK, and wants to take down a reasonably sized pot now while they are still "ahead."

With shallower stacks I would shove, but here I think we should call and see a flop.
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Old 02-16-2019, 01:24 PM   #6709
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

2/5 about 11pm on main game at casino

UTG (600ish), havent seen him be too active. 30s WG. limps

folds to Hero in BB (covers, i've only been at the table for like 1/2 hour, so no real reads other than what i said) opens to 25. UTG calls

Flop (50): QdTc3d

hero bets 25
V calls

Turn (100): QdTc3d [Js]

hero bets 60
V thinks for 30ish seconds and calls

River (220): QdTc3d [Js] [Ac]

hero checks
V bets 130 after about 15 seconds
Hero?

-----

i think my sizing pre and flop are bad.
pre i think is should be going 30-35
flop i think i should be going closer to pot, like 40 because this board either interacts with him or completely missed him.

turn i think is ok but open to suggestions on sizing and why.

river i think is an obvious check, as we never get looked up by anything other than a K. not sure if it's a check/call or check/fold. thoughts?
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Old 02-16-2019, 02:51 PM   #6710
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Is this a "what do do with our range" kind of question? Or is there some other reason you left out hero's holding?
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Old 02-16-2019, 03:24 PM   #6711
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

ha, no. was dealing with a 6 and 3 year old while writing it. they are distracting.

Hero has red TT
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Old 02-16-2019, 03:42 PM   #6712
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/3

300 effective stacks

V is an unknown and he covers me. Just started the table about half an hour ago he limp calls a ton and is easily playing over 50% of starting hands

H: have only limped behind a few hands and haven’t been playing too aggressively yet

OTTH: I open the HJ with Kd Qh to 12 V is the only caller OTB

Flop As Ac 8s (27)

We bet 8 and he calls

(43) Turn 8d we check he bets 25... I think SOMETIMES we are ahead here

(93) River 9d we check he bets 25....
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:16 PM   #6713
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

TY Chris/Alan/Sirpup. You all make good points. I felt quite lame not knowing what to do here w/ a super-premium like KK, but it's pretty unpleasant to **** up in spots like this for 200BB or more, and felt all options were potentially open. Results:

Spoiler:
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:49 PM   #6714
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I'm OK folding KK to that action, obviously making sure no-one ever finds out what I had.
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Old 02-21-2019, 04:56 PM   #6715
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/3 live. $200eff stacks. Ep makes it 18. I have 33 in CO. Do i have odds to call?
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Old 02-21-2019, 05:13 PM   #6716
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by minky911 View Post
1/3 live. $200eff stacks. Ep makes it 18. I have 33 in CO. Do i have odds to call?
Are you mostly only calling to setmine, or are you going to play some postflop poker?

How many more will come along if you call?

Is EP a loose raiser or a tight raiser in EP? How likely is he to stack off with TP?

Do we have a tight nitty nut peddler image or a loosey gooesy wild one?

In general, there's much more that goes into "do I have IO" than just the stack sizes. However, sometimes stack sizes will make all the above questions rather moot if they are too small. Here, the most we can make up HU is about 11:1, which is pretty terrible for setmining.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:29 PM   #6717
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

2/5. Straddled pot. Folded to hero who completes SB with AsQh, BB completes, straddler checks. BB is 65 y/o white guy in for $3k who claims he has a $500k prop bet and does molly in the bathroom. Hero is eff. with $700.

Flop ($30): Ts-5s-2d. Checks around.

Turn: Qs. Hero bets $15, BB calls, straddler folds.

River ($53): Jc. Hero bets $30, BB raises $90. Hero raises $210.
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:54 PM   #6718
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Raise pre. You're ahead of his range, OOP and playing against a gambloor. Get some money in the damn pot.

AP, bigger OTT and just call river raise. He's not gonna believe you have a flush often enough to fold 2p plus. He's prolly got enough "I don't believe you have a flush" in his range to make a call OK, though.
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Old 02-22-2019, 08:46 PM   #6719
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I like the play in isolation, not sure I like it vs a guy doing drugs in the bathroom.
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Old 02-23-2019, 09:19 AM   #6720
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

So I keep seeing threads in here where people reference stack sizes as xxx bb but they aren't really including the straddle. Do we not count the straddle as the bb when talking about stack depth anymore?

Example in a 1/2 game $300 deep if the table straddles to $5 and opening raises adjust to $25 aren't we essentially 60bb deep instead of 150bb deep?

Seems not many people are referencing the effective depth as compared to the straddle in many threads. Just wanted to make sure my thoughts are right/wrong.
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Old 02-23-2019, 11:55 AM   #6721
Garick
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

That's part of why I prefer that people just use dollars, not BBs.

Functionally, a straddle cuts effective stacks, but not in half, since most Vs don't adjust their sizing or their GII range appropriately.
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Old 02-23-2019, 07:44 PM   #6722
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTzLifestyle View Post
Hoping some online tourney guys here, is this the worst shove ever or standard?

156 left 153 pay, $2 3500 runners. I have 12 bigs left 4.6m (about 4.1m after hand if I fold) I’m in small blind folded to me with K4dd and shove. Over 2bigs dead money in pot, bb was playing 21/9/22.2 over a small sample.
You didn't post BB's stack size. If it's close to yours then I think this is a standard shove and BB should fold a lot due to ICM pressure. If BB is significantly deeper than you or you have a read that he will call light then I'm folding.

I don't have active ICM software, so I can't check, but ICMizer can do a pretty good job of answering this question.
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Old 02-24-2019, 01:18 PM   #6723
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/3

I’m the effective stack with 280

Young guy I haven’t really played any hands yet.

V: plays way around 33% of his hands.

It seems like he barrels lots of cards that may be bad for his range a lot. I have position on him. He’s a lot of action

OTTH: one limp UTG he raises in the HJ to 15 I call cutoff BB calls UTG CALLS
(I have KsQh)

(61) Flop Qd 5s 7s

Checks to V he bets 40

We call others fold
(141) Turn 6s he checks

We think and check?

River 5d

We bet 55 after he checks

Thoughts?

We plan on bet folding if he check raises

We choose this sizing for some thinner value
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:19 PM   #6724
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Can someone please help with the above post? It’s bothering me lots

I think any As bets turn a lot as well.

Sizing good?

I wanna get called by 1010 and JJ maybe QJ
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:58 PM   #6725
Garick
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Depends on V. Can he bluff river here? If so, I think the sizing is too small. It might induce, and against an action V, you may put yourself in a bad spot. Generally against all but the most passive Vs, I prefer a half-pot bet. It may get called a little less often, but it's a much easier fold when we get raised.

You rep exactly what you have. There's a straight and a flush that both got there and you checked back when they came in. He will never think you have one of them here. OTOH, he's very unlikely to have them either, having checked twice. If he raises, unless he thinks you're stabby, he's repping a boat. That's a thin representation, and I'm not sure folding is good, especially given our small sizing.
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