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Old 06-04-2012, 05:18 AM   #601
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I hate limped pots.

Limp in EP with 55 ... multiple callers as it's $1/$2. Flop is 975 with two hearts. I bet $13, guy minraises to $26. Two callers. I raise to $60. He goes all-in for $102 ... one fold; one call. I ship for $100 on top of my $60, so like $58 more for the other guy to call. He calls.

So many draws and two pair/overpairs/pair and gutshots in there I think I am OK with getting stacked here.

Just always reminds me of the saying 'never go broke in a limped pot.'
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:13 PM   #602
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

wp, nh
Quote:
Just always reminds me of the saying 'never go broke in a limped pot.'
True, but another equally valid statement (more so, imo) is, "if you never getting stacked with sets you're not playing them fast enough."
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:09 PM   #603
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveinkolb View Post
I hate limped pots.

Limp in EP with 55 ... multiple callers as it's $1/$2. Flop is 975 with two hearts. I bet $13, guy minraises to $26. Two callers. I raise to $60. He goes all-in for $102 ... one fold; one call. I ship for $100 on top of my $60, so like $58 more for the other guy to call. He calls.

So many draws and two pair/overpairs/pair and gutshots in there I think I am OK with getting stacked here.

Just always reminds me of the saying 'never go broke in a limped pot.'
in a 3 way pot, I guess I am getting it in with 55 hoping it is not 86 vs. 97 vs my 55
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:44 AM   #604
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

5/10 game 220BB effective.

I get 89dd OTB 3 limpers to me I make it 50. Villain in BB makes it 170. First 3! I've seen him make but he was by no means playing tight. Making plays and showing bluffs in what has been a very active, aggressive game so far.

My question is, is this an easy defend OTB against a balanced, aggressive, seemingly competent player? Or an insta muck?
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:01 AM   #605
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

^ probably a fold
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:03 PM   #606
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Seems like I know what the right answer is thought I'd throw the hh in this thread. Villain is a late 50s white guy plays pretty snug and occasionally goes aggro, at least for him(raising a limper with qjo ip).

Ok on to the hand. The game is 1/2nl I have villain covered, he has 600-650. Mp limps, villain on the hj raises to 13, I'm in the co w/kk and 3 bet to 45, limper folds, and hj shoves after 3 seconds.. Vs this guy I'd snap call 125bbs deep. It's toward the end of the night what do you do?
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:46 AM   #607
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

typical $1/$2 game. eff. stacks: $325ish.

1 or 2 limpers I have Jh Jd and I make it $17. Small blind calls. One other limper calls. Small blind has been having a tough night. Generally, she's OK. Not great, not bad, either. More aggressive than passive.

Flop comes 8c 7c 4d. It's checked to me and I bet $41. She raises to $110 and the other player folds.

You?
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:06 PM   #608
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveinkolb View Post
typical $1/$2 game. eff. stacks: $325ish.

1 or 2 limpers I have Jh Jd and I make it $17. Small blind calls. One other limper calls. Small blind has been having a tough night. Generally, she's OK. Not great, not bad, either. More aggressive than passive.

Flop comes 8c 7c 4d. It's checked to me and I bet $41. She raises to $110 and the other player folds.

You?
Super sucky spot, IMO. I know there's a bunch of draws, plus there's also some overpairs that we beat (TT/99). But, in the end, I just don't think the typical small stakes player is raising the flop to play for 160 BB stacks with these types of hands. Typical players would just call with TT/99 knowing that we've showed strength, and draws would just happily call to try and hit their hand to win a big pot. I know she's more aggro than most, but still... I fold.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:57 PM   #609
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Super sucky spot, IMO. I know there's a bunch of draws, plus there's also some overpairs that we beat (TT/99). But, in the end, I just don't think the typical small stakes player is raising the flop to play for 160 BB stacks with these types of hands. Typical players would just call with TT/99 knowing that we've showed strength, and draws would just happily call to try and hit their hand to win a big pot. I know she's more aggro than most, but still... I fold.

GcluelessNLnoobG
wasn't that i didn't respect this answer, but when it only got one i started the other thread.

here's another:

i raise to $20 in a straddled pot ... AKo. Flop is 832 and I lead for $35. (there were 3 callers). Shorstack shoves for $52 more. I know I'm beat here. I hate life.

i talk myself into calling because there is about $160 in the pot and it's $52 more to call ... just hate myself for putting myself in that spot.

he shows K8 and turns an 8. I tell him nice catch, that i had pocket 10s.
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Old 06-16-2012, 04:00 AM   #610
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/2 Eff stacks $600

Utg limps, Hero limps in MP with 6 6 , BTN limps, blinds limps

Flop ($10): 6 5 2
SB checks, BB bets $10, Hero raises to $30, folds to BB who calls

Turn ($70): J
BB checks, Hero bets $50, BB raises to $200, Hero calls

River ($470): K
BB bets $200, Hero calls

BB shows 4 3 and scoops $870

Should I have been able to find a fold on the turn or river?

Villain image was aggressive (he was on his 3rd BI after spewing off the first 2) and Hero also had an aggressive image. But even if I was in a readless vacuum, should I have been able to fold?
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:12 AM   #611
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAOxEaglex View Post
1/2 Eff stacks $600

Utg limps, Hero limps in MP with 6 6 , BTN limps, blinds limps

Flop ($10): 6 5 2
SB checks, BB bets $10, Hero raises to $30, folds to BB who calls

Turn ($70): J
BB checks, Hero bets $50, BB raises to $200, Hero calls

River ($470): K
BB bets $200, Hero calls

BB shows 4 3 and scoops $870

Should I have been able to find a fold on the turn or river?

Villain image was aggressive (he was on his 3rd BI after spewing off the first 2) and Hero also had an aggressive image. But even if I was in a readless vacuum, should I have been able to fold?
No. Not folding top set. I think the only street you played well was the river, also. Raise pre, I mean you're 300bb deep in MP with one limper. No reason not to. You need to be raising more on the flop, too. Like $50. Build the pot. I would have just got it on the turn. Your hand is underrepped, IMO. I guess they played it worse, though. Their bet-sizing was atrocious.
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Old 06-16-2012, 06:24 AM   #612
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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No. Not folding top set. I think the only street you played well was the river, also. Raise pre, I mean you're 300bb deep in MP with one limper. No reason not to. You need to be raising more on the flop, too. Like $50. Build the pot. I would have just got it on the turn. Your hand is underrepped, IMO. I guess they played it worse, though. Their bet-sizing was atrocious.
Yeah, the hand plays so much easier in a raised pot. I mean, sure he could call preflop with 34 if you raise, but ...

I had a similar hand a few weeks ago ... I had 55 and the flop was 975. I was up against 86 and 8 10 and the river was a 6, so, of course, last place finished first.

Problem with your hand is you are so deep if the player is competent it's pretty obvious he has a monster. But that monster could just as easily be two pair or a lower set.

It's just a cooler.
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Old 06-16-2012, 01:23 PM   #613
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAOxEaglex View Post
1/2 Eff stacks $600

Utg limps, Hero limps in MP with 6 6 , BTN limps, blinds limps

Flop ($10): 6 5 2
SB checks, BB bets $10, Hero raises to $30, folds to BB who calls

Turn ($70): J
BB checks, Hero bets $50, BB raises to $200, Hero calls

River ($470): K
BB bets $200, Hero calls

BB shows 4 3 and scoops $870

Should I have been able to find a fold on the turn or river?

Villain image was aggressive (he was on his 3rd BI after spewing off the first 2) and Hero also had an aggressive image. But even if I was in a readless vacuum, should I have been able to fold?
Learn to run better.

I don't see how you can ever fold. I would probably have just stacked on the turn. There is J6/J5/55/22/Jxhh in his range here i believe. Edit: and 65/62/52
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Old 06-16-2012, 01:45 PM   #614
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Assuming this is a capped BI game, that CR on turn is huge at 100bb. Not huge relative to pot or action in the hand, but it is huge in the absolute sense, especially for a live fish.

Follow that up with a barreled equally big bet, and without past HH, this is almost always nuts here.

Folding on turn is absurd for obvious reasons, but there's a fold on river.
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Old 06-16-2012, 03:08 PM   #615
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Assuming this is a capped BI game, that CR on turn is huge at 100bb. Not huge relative to pot or action in the hand, but it is huge in the absolute sense, especially for a live fish.

Follow that up with a barreled equally big bet, and without past HH, this is almost always nuts here.

Folding on turn is absurd for obvious reasons, but there's a fold on river.
So you think the river is a fold? I certainly thought about it because villains just tend to be such showdown monkeys and love checking the river.

But then I calculated that I only needed to be good about 20% of the time to call the river and stove shows:


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

22 games 0.000 secs 4,400 games/sec

Board: 5h 6h 2c Jd Kc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 27.273% 27.27% 00.00% 6 0.00 { 6c6s }
Hand 1: 72.727% 72.73% 00.00% 16 0.00 { 55, 22, 43s, 43o }

Sets and straights is a super tight range and I still have odds to call. You've gotta think some frequency of 2pairs and even missed draws should be included.

This isn't even considering his aggressive image coupled with my own. In a vacuum, I still think I have to call down, no?
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Old 06-16-2012, 03:52 PM   #616
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What's the max BI in this game? If it's $200, then he just made a very huge river bet.

Poker stove won't matter in an instance where a huge bet like this one is only made with nuts.
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:11 PM   #617
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Tao, it's pretty effing close to a fold. But I'm like you, I don't know if I could fold it.

As I said in a recent thread, ranges at 1/2 get super nutty on boards where monster hands are possible. I have seen very few villains who are capable of check/raising 22 on a 652J board after you raise the flop. It's a non-zero number of villains, but it is rare as hell to see someone check/raise anything other than the straight.

His turn bet size is relevant, too. That is a GIANT bet for a 1/2 game, and I almost never see bets like that from sober players with a non-nut hand.

The range you stoved for him is, in a vacuum, super-tight. But if anything, it is probably too wide for his turn check/raise.

I also think that the fact that you just called him down indicates that you had some sort of read that he wouldn't be betting like that without the nuts. So you were sort of thinking about this hand like I am: it looks like ha can only have the nuts, but I have top set and I don't think I can fold.

I don't want to say anything definitive about folding, because saying fold here requires that we call his exact holding. But, I dunno. You had a feeling you were beat, and my experience is largely the same--that they are almost always on the stone cold nuts to bet like he did here.

I probably play it exactly like you postflop, but I have a developing suspicion that it's a leak.
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Old 06-16-2012, 08:27 PM   #618
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Here is a quick river raise sizing decision I faced last night:

Villain is an aggrotard whose stack has been fluctuating wildly. He is stuck maybe 400 and has 300 in front of him. Have seen him be wrong on one or two hero calls, but not against me.

History with villain: one hand where he raised to 6 got a caller, I 3 bet from a blind to 27 with kings, he called. Flop was K74r, I led for 27, he called. Turn was a Q that made a diamond flush. I checked, he bet 45 leaving 40 behind, I shoved (oops) and he folded.

Present hand:

I have $120 (up against my stop loss) villain covers.

Table is 7 handed, I have Tc8c UTG and raise to 6. Villain calls out of the small blind.

Flop: 9d7h5c

Villain checks, I bet 8, villain calls.

Turn: 4h

Villain checks, I check.

River: 6d

Villain leads for 13.

Size my raise please.
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:47 PM   #619
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpethybridge View Post
Here is a quick river raise sizing decision I faced last night:

Villain is an aggrotard whose stack has been fluctuating wildly. He is stuck maybe 400 and has 300 in front of him. Have seen him be wrong on one or two hero calls, but not against me.

History with villain: one hand where he raised to 6 got a caller, I 3 bet from a blind to 27 with kings, he called. Flop was K74r, I led for 27, he called. Turn was a Q that made a diamond flush. I checked, he bet 45 leaving 40 behind, I shoved (oops) and he folded.

Present hand:

I have $120 (up against my stop loss) villain covers.

Table is 7 handed, I have Tc8c UTG and raise to 6. Villain calls out of the small blind.

Flop: 9d7h5c

Villain checks, I bet 8, villain calls.

Turn: 4h

Villain checks, I check.

River: 6d

Villain leads for 13.

Size my raise please.
$39 ... shoving isn't terrible either. he'll call with the 8.


. how good are you at sticking to your stop loss? i need to get better at that.
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Old 06-17-2012, 12:08 AM   #620
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

My $300 stop loss is optional, sort of. I keep it in place unless I have position on a giant fish. With that exception, I am 100% in sticking to it. My $500 stop loss is a hard and fast rule. I've never broken it since putting it in place.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:12 PM   #621
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

The other day I encountered a guy who only wanted to chop when he had a bad hand and didn't want to chop if he had a good hand.

I asked him if he chops or not and he just ignored me and wouldn't answer, so obviously I stopped chopping with him, and he got mad when he wanted to chop and I said no.

I explained to him that it's proper etiquette that you either always chop or never chop and he told me that he's not gonna take etiquette advice from a 12 year old lol. (He was in his 50s or 60s)

I'm a nice guy, and I don't want to berate this ******* by telling him he's an ******* or calling him a ignorant piece of ****, my question is...

What would you guys say/do in this situation?
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:19 PM   #622
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by PayOffWizard1987 View Post
The other day I encountered a guy who only wanted to chop when he had a bad hand and didn't want to chop if he had a good hand.

I asked him if he chops or not and he just ignored me and wouldn't answer, so obviously I stopped chopping with him, and he got mad when he wanted to chop and I said no.

I explained to him that it's proper etiquette that you either always chop or never chop and he told me that he's not gonna take etiquette advice from a 12 year old lol. (He was in his 50s or 60s)

I'm a nice guy, and I don't want to berate this ******* by telling him he's an ******* or calling him a ignorant piece of ****, my question is...

What would you guys say/do in this situation?
if there's a BB jackpot in your casino, you can make an arrangement to play if you both have a bb type hand, otherwise chop...That's fine, as is declaring ahead of time that "you don't ever chop"
But can't be selective about chopping based on hand strength
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:28 PM   #623
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5/10 hand from last night.

I just get back from a break and talk up the table about how it's time to gamble and tell everyone before the cards are dealt that I'm gonna raise this hand. UTG straddle is on for 20.

I'm in cutoff and pickup AKss. UTG+1 makes it 60 to go with 1k effective. I cover. This guy I've played one session with where I had a very solid winning image that day. Plays aggressive but no true solid reads on him.

Anyways I make it 160 and folds back to him. He takes about 30 seconds and makes it 400 total.

Back to me. Shove call or fold?
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Old 06-25-2012, 03:37 PM   #624
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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5/10 hand from last night.

I just get back from a break and talk up the table about how it's time to gamble and tell everyone before the cards are dealt that I'm gonna raise this hand. UTG straddle is on for 20.

I'm in cutoff and pickup AKss. UTG+1 makes it 60 to go with 1k effective. I cover. This guy I've played one session with where I had a very solid winning image that day. Plays aggressive but no true solid reads on him.

Anyways I make it 160 and folds back to him. He takes about 30 seconds and makes it 400 total.

Back to me. Shove call or fold?
Really? seems like a trivial shove to me
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:30 PM   #625
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Ugh ... get KK back to back last night and lose both.

Second hand, eff. stacks: $154.

Straddled pot in $1/$2 ... I am BB. Couple limpers and I make it $22. SB calls. Flop is Q77. I bet $32. He calls. Turn is a 9. Only $100 left in his stack, I just shove.

How bad?
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