I'm not crazy about the turn bet and I'm check folding now. I don't see why we should expect to be ahead plenty. We 4bet pre UTG v UTG+1. Villain is going to have us on something like QQ+ AK, with maybe like a suited ace or two tossed in. We are near the bottom of that range. Villain presumably flatted us OTT with something that has a future against some part of that range (the alternative is that you think he flatted us in a 4b pot purely as a float, so he can bluff the river, which wouldn't work out great if we shoved, which from his point of view is a possibility). Anything that has a future against that range beats KK.

If he shows up with QQ/JJ, really don't see him turning them into a bluff. What's he trying to bluff out, specifically KK?

Two standard spots I'd like some feedback on - both 5/5

Hand 1 - Too thin to go for value OTR?
A9 in SB
4 limpers, I open to 35, MP and BTN call
Flop [$120]: KT6
I bet 65, only MP calls
Turn [$250]: A
I bet 85, MP calls
River [$430]: 6
??? (No reads on villain, just sat down)

Hand 2 - Give up OTF in 3b pot?
Villain is old white lady, limps a fair amount, but tight opening range and fit/fold postflop
AJ in SB
V in MP1 opens to 25
2 LP callers
I squeeze to 125
V calls without a second thought, others fold
Flop [$300]: KJ7
???

Should I give up or jam remaining 180 effective with second pair, hoping to fold out AQ/QQ/TT?

Hand one: Fold pre

Hand two: Fold pre

Seriously, stop raising meh hands in the SB in no FE games.

Hand 1: check, I'm not trying to thin 4 limpers in a 5/5 game from the SB. It's going to work basically never.

AP: we have a massive range advantage and V should be raising all the hands that beat us at different points through the hand. I might jam to try to get V off a chop or call with a weirdly played KT

Hand 2: pre is meh. V is tight, we're not really going to fold our better.

Why are you trying to fold out AQ and TT? These hands have 3 and 2 outs respectively , they are the hands we want to stay in and call

AP I check the flop and see what V does. If V jams I might give it up, if they don't Ill tend to think I'm ahead and will value bet later in the hand

Villain should have QQ quite a bit. A bit of AA obv. We block AK and we also need to discount it due to pre and a little more due to flop. So x/c and feel like a hero when he tables hooks.

Hand 1. I occasionally go 45 if I'm at a table where there is a decent chance I'll take it down. Helps to be old tho. Not a fan of the cbet, AP I x/c the turn.

Hand 2, lol at squeezing a tight old white lady.

Hand 1, I figured I could maybe get value from KQ/KJ that picked up a gutshot OTT? I ended up making a value/block bet of 105.

Yeah squeezing in 2 was bad and put me in an awkward spot postflop. Sometimes I don't fully think through that specific villain's opening range before bombing it pre

Typical loose passive limpfest 1/2 9 handed casino game. Been there about 45 minutes and have V (30s WG in t shirt) as loose passive cause of a lot of preflop limp/calling and don't recall seeing him make any significant bets. H (30s WG) has been more aggressive than most so far, but my guess is V isn't paying attention. Effective stacks $300.

UTG straddle $5, UTG+1 call, H (AcJc) in LJ $35, V in SB call, rest fold.

Flop ($76) JhTs6h. V $75. H?




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My first time in this thread and looking for a line check.

Hero raises 12 utg with KK and hj and co call (both are constant limp callers).

3 way to a flop of A44 all red. 1st V overbets 50 and next V calls. I frustratingly sigh with my KK and fold. Is there any kind of situation I can check call and see a turn or is this unprofitable?

Raise bigger pre, much bigger.

I'd probably call and reassess on the turn. If he bets pot again on a brick turn I'd lean to a fold.

No, a call here is virtually always unprofitable. A donk and a call on A77, you're KK is typically behind. Tip your cap to them and thank them for saving you money

I pretty much agree with this all and your range is spot on. I actually think AA makes the most sense for him tbh - there aren’t many hands he can have here if he’s decent, which I think he has. I kind of think he 4 bets or folds AK pre but maybe I’m wrong and I think he has to fold QQ to my turn bet

Turn bet if I’m being honest was more of a blocker than anything else. Being deep and oop in a 4 bet pot with a vulnerable value hand isn’t much fun.

I checked river planning on check folding and he checked back with.....

KK

1/3. Table playing semi-loose/semi-passive. Assortment of stacks from $100-$400, so thought limping made things less awkard w/ what is in essence an IO hand. Isolator (V2, $260) hasn't raised a hand yet in an hour or so of playing. Limping quite a bit, not getting to showdown much. Flop donk-bettor (V1, $300) has raised a few times the last couple orbits, but has been very check/give-up centric postflop. Hero young-looking MAWG, playing tight.

Should I even be calling the raise pre if I'm going to fold w/ one of the best flops I could have hoped for, or are the implied odds there to spike 2PR+ & escape otherwise? Thanks.

Hero (EP3) : A 8

Fold, V1 limps $3, Hero c $3, V2 r $16, OTB/SB call $16, V1 c $16, Hero c $16

Flop ($73) : 8 6 2

SB x, V1 b $60, Hero folds

I'm OK with any of the three options first time preflop, honestly, depending on It probably should be a fold the second time around. Just a little bit too big a raise, would be nice to have one more opponent in the mix. That said, flatting can't be too big a mistake.

Flop you probably have to fold. V1's range is probably draw-oriented, but there's V2 behind you to worry about. 8xx flops aren't as good as they look, treat them with caution.

Hand 1: Complete SB. Raising A9o from the SB is pretty spewy IMO. AP...flop is fine. Turn is fine. Shove river. You beat KT, he hardly ever has spades, and you chop any Ace but AK AT A6. You may get him off a chop which is fantastic.

Hand 2: Fold pre. Why are you squeezing a tight old lady with AJo from the SB? You're crushed. Fold fold fold. AP...ugh. This is why we fold. Who knows if she has TT or 99 or AK or QQ? Just x/f unless the bet is lolsmall in which case I call once to see what she does OTT (and hey maybe we spike a J).

I typically fold preflop now as my tables are much more aggressive than what they were in the past (i.e. little chance of seeing a cheap flop) and far less payoffy postflop (especially OOP). As played, I probably sigh call closing the action although it's quite meh (and why I typically open fold the first time around).

I also fold the flop. Mediocre hand that is unlikely to improve, facing a donk into the world, and still with the raiser to act behind us.

GcluelessNLnoobG

@ Chris, GG : Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your thoughts. The times I do opt to limp w/ stuff like Axs, 54s-98s, etc. and face a 5-6x+ raise vs a diversity of stack sizes behind/ahead of me, I find it a bit awkward/perplexing as to how to proceed beyond spiking 2PR or praying for a mild 1 street scenario w/ TP, etc. W/ that said, I'm fairly comfortable w/ being a nit in these spots for now based on the few Axs hands I've posted in here.

For S&G, here is how the rest of the hand played out :

Yikes.

Suited connectors shouldn't be limped if there's much chance of a raise behind. I posted this the other day, but they're a misunderstood hand type. You either want to see a flop very cheaply, or you want to be aggressive in position with them. Raised 5-way pots are bad for them because it's hard to realise their equity when they make one pair and you don't want to flop non-nut draws in family pots.

Suited aces, you're just relying on Axx flops and whatnot to keep you afloat while you wait for a score. Flopping aces up, trip eights or a flush/flush draw are all spots where you can easily cooler an opponent who has flopped strong. Hell of a lot better flopping 88x with A8s than 87s, the latter is an exciting opportunity to get outkicked by the guy who has A8s.

Ok, I had to leave the casino after this hand for fear of tilt. Line check. It's 3:30 AM and 2/5 tables are breaking. The table has been boring / nitty for most of the night but we cycled through just enough fish and LAGs with one LP to keep me from switching to a more action table. Honestly some of the other tables looked to have too much action.

Hero: TAGish (this hand was passive tho), UTG + 1 (~$1250)
V1 Youngish WG, LAG but not maniac from what I can tell. (~$1200)
V2 MAWG, LAG fairly new to table though so read is subjective. Covers.

OTTH: Hero decides to limp 99 as the table has livened up after getting new players from the broken games and doesn't feel like trying to play a huge pot OOP or calling a 3 bet OOP against large stacks with this hand.
V1 (CO or Button?) Opens for $35.
V2 SB raises to $80.
Hero???

My initial read was they were both likely on Ax hands but V2 could also easily have a hand like TT, JJ. Without exhaustively breaking down ranges and deciding which flops I can donk bet or how to proceed. I fold. V1 calls.

Flop: 933

V2 leads for $125. V 1 folds. Insert tilt here. See you next session.

I feel like ATC will suggest open for $35 and after V1 likely calls and V2 raises to $80 to smooth call and spike. Then obviously x/c to river or bet value if Vs check. Where are the other heavy hitters? Is this a standard fold OOP or is bet/calling a leak? Am I just being results oriented? I hadn't been able to play for stacks at all in a 4+ hour session so it was sick to see this opportunity slip by. V2 announces spoiler after winning the hand but I wont post results unless it's somehow relevant?

So assuming that V1 doesn't 4! too often, you are getting proper odds to set mine IMO ($75/$1245 or ~16.5-1) and not have to find a way to steal the pot unimproved to make the call profitable. I think you can flat the $80 and play some poker. But, if that makes you uncomfortable, then the fold is OK. Just don't Monday QB and tilt because you folded and flopped the second nuts. You made what you thought was a good decision pre so what happened next is irrelevant.

As an aside, good discipline to get up and leave (hopefully booking a win?) if you knew that 250 bb's would be in spewplay if you stayed.

How do you generally play AK when you open and an IP tight player 3-bets you? Say it's 120BB stacks, we open to 5BB and get 3-b to 20BB. Folding, calling, 4b, and jamming all seem like bad options. Folding AK pre just seems too weak, calling and missing flop 2/3rds of the time makes it really hard to continue OOP to the inevitable C-bet, 4b and/or jamming seems to strong, and we're prob only getting called by QQ+ and maybe AK.

Got into this spot 4 times last night and felt like I was just torching money by calling. One time I just 4-b jammed into an 80BB stack and ran into KK.

Against a tight player it depends where I open AK from. The later position I’m in, the more willing I am to rip it in. The UTG/+1 opens and the tight player is EP-MP, I’d consider a fold. The tight player 3B from button or cutoff, I’m more likely to gii.

Thanks. This is what I needed! I knew I'd be set mining three way (at least I thought I needed to hit). And I knew I'd get paid if I hit. I didn't think V1 was 4! much there. If it were earlier in the night I think I may have gone for it (for the wrong reasons lol) but I hadn't realized the stack size odds were actually making it a profitable call rather than a gamble. I'll definitely be using this rule going forward to guide when to set mine and when to fold. Previously I'd tried to limit set mining to tight Vs and or in position so that I would have additional options to win the pot if I missed. This hand was neither but I didn't consider how deep we were relative to the 3! Yea, it was getting late and I also wanted to protect my small win. I bought $700 so I was ok with +$550 ($117/hr). With my style I typically go for a string of smaller wins rather than a 3x session.

think the optimal strat is to LEAVE if you are going to switch to weak-tight poker for whatever reason. Garick does a better job of making this statement somewhere in the last ~200 posts.