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Old 04-15-2012, 09:00 AM   #501
DrTJO
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostia View Post
v1 - middle aged loose passive fish. plays anything suited, the least bit connected. recently showed down T4dd on a paired board for a rivered flush in a raised pot.

v2 - has not played a lot of hands, but i've only been at the table for 45 minutes. no notable hands played.

2/5NL
hero (bb) - $500 - Ts Th
v1 (utg) - $700
v2 (co) - $500

5 limps, hero raises to $35, both villains call, others fold.

flop: $120, 3 players
6s 7d 9s
hero bets $75, v1 tank calls, v2 calls.

turn: $345, 3 players
4s
hero?? b/f? c/f?
I favour c/f since V2 over-calls without tanking and could easily have hit the flush. Hero's still ahead of straight draws and 10-A9, but why bloat the pot OOP? What's your read on V1s tank on the flop---sounds like he either wants to raise a combo (e.g. 78) or has a weak pair/gutter (e.g. 56 or 55)? This board is not great for value betting turn IMO.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:54 PM   #502
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Today I flopped the nut flush (KdQd on Axxdddxsxs) with a spewtard image and pot flop, pot turn, pot river and got called down. I show my hand and she says I'll show one of them and shows a Jd, and says she has a lower flush. I am pretty sure she is lieing b/c she could show both if she was telling the truth. Do u guys think she was lieing?
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:37 AM   #503
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by fun101 View Post
Today I flopped the nut flush (KdQd on Axxdddxsxs) with a spewtard image and pot flop, pot turn, pot river and got called down. I show my hand and she says I'll show one of them and shows a Jd, and says she has a lower flush. I am pretty sure she is lieing b/c she could show both if she was telling the truth. Do u guys think she was lieing?
Sometimes they don't show the second card out of embarrassment if its a weak card like 2-6
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:35 AM   #504
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

@fun101
She almost certainly had a flush if she called you 3 streets, but yea sometimes they don't like to admit that they called your preflop raise with J4s (you did raise preflop right? ).

@agnostia
That's a tough spot, check/fold seems good. I probably check/fold most rivers too and expect to win this pot every time if it's checked around.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:43 AM   #505
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
Why give an opportunity for $110 and $120 stacks to fold flop, missing out on $30 and $40, respectively? If they are calling $80, they're calling their stack off preflop, so let them, no? Or are we concerned about possibly getting the larger $200 to play?
I somewhat disagree with this part- I would make it $60 or so instead. I've played with tons of guys who will call of 1/2 of their stack to try to hit a set and fold if they miss. Hey, I didn't say I understand it...
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:37 PM   #506
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

sort of weird spot that i was exploring in my head last session...

1/2 200 max buyin game

utg who is a young white male opens to 12. he seems semi out of it mentally but could just be an act. hasnt done anything crazy seemingly playing fairly straight forward for 40 mins or so.

we get AA.

i raise to 45 from UTG+1 with $200 eff stacks between villain and i.

villain calls.

i keep my eyes on villain the entire time while the flop is dealt. villain looking at the board the whole time the flop is being dealt and does not even glance at me even though im staring a hole through him as the flop comes.

he quickly announces all in.

is there any board we are folding on?
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:36 AM   #507
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by rizeagainst View Post
sort of weird spot that i was exploring in my head last session...

1/2 200 max buyin game

utg who is a young white male opens to 12. he seems semi out of it mentally but could just be an act. hasnt done anything crazy seemingly playing fairly straight forward for 40 mins or so.

we get AA.

i raise to 45 from UTG+1 with $200 eff stacks between villain and i.

villain calls.

i keep my eyes on villain the entire time while the flop is dealt. villain looking at the board the whole time the flop is being dealt and does not even glance at me even though im staring a hole through him as the flop comes.

he quickly announces all in.

is there any board we are folding on?
A QJT board would be pretty gross (i.e. slams every UTG raise-and-call-3bet-but-no-4bet) hand. But pretty difficult fold overall since we'll always have TP with an SPR of 1.5.
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:42 AM   #508
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

It makes no sense that he would open shove with a nutty hand, because people just don't do it in LLSNL, especially in a 3-bet pot.

So if he open shoves, I don't think I am ever folding. Doesn't even what the board is.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:57 PM   #509
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
A QJT board would be pretty gross (i.e. slams every UTG raise-and-call-3bet-but-no-4bet) hand. But pretty difficult fold overall since we'll always have TP with an SPR of 1.5.
I was also thinking a board with 2 kings on it would be tough but yes QJT is also tough, as well as a monotone board that has a couple picture cards and is a suit we don't have would be tough. overall i don't know if i'm ever folding here though... it's just a thought exercise though since i looked over at the board and it was A63r and villain showed up with AK
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Old 04-17-2012, 05:21 PM   #510
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Horrible shove from villain because he's never getting called by worse.
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:50 PM   #511
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

i have 9h4h in bb. 3 limps. i check

744

i lead 6.

1 caller.

10 on turn.

i bet 15.

villain folds.

this is how we do llsnl yes?
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:03 PM   #512
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another hand...

there is a weird old fish at the table who is a clear mark. he plays somewhat nitty and seems like a very first level only thinking player. he only thinks about his cards and nothing else it seems. type of player that overvalues top pair and overpair hands in multiway hands. he got all his money in with AA on a previous hand on a QJ7 flop for about 100bb and spiked an A vs another dudes QJ and proceeded to have a celebration and taunting the other player and received a penalty from the floor and had to sit out a certain amount of hands. the following hand is the very next hand that ensued. this player wanted to leave because he couldnt understand the penalty or what it entailed but a reg kept consoling him telling him he would be allowed to play again very soon so he decided to stay.

weird old fish raises to 8 in with blinds 1/2... 200 eff stacks between us.

i raise from btn with KK to 40. i mean business.

a player in the blinds moves all in for like ~57.

weird old fish calls.

i call.

flop is K 8 3 r

weird old fish bets out 45.

are we calling or raising?
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:53 PM   #513
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rizeagainst View Post
i have 9h4h in bb. 3 limps. i check

744

i lead 6.

1 caller.

10 on turn.

i bet 15.

villain folds.

this is how we do llsnl yes?
Pot is (4 * 2) + 1 = $9 (before any raking) on flop? I toss in 2 red chips = $10 on the flop. Cost ourselves $4 on the flop, imo.

Since an overcard came on the turn, I also just 3/4 PSB on the turn and hope villain hangs around with his 7x/88/etc.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:59 PM   #514
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rizeagainst View Post
another hand...

there is a weird old fish at the table who is a clear mark. he plays somewhat nitty and seems like a very first level only thinking player. he only thinks about his cards and nothing else it seems. type of player that overvalues top pair and overpair hands in multiway hands. he got all his money in with AA on a previous hand on a QJ7 flop for about 100bb and spiked an A vs another dudes QJ and proceeded to have a celebration and taunting the other player and received a penalty from the floor and had to sit out a certain amount of hands. the following hand is the very next hand that ensued. this player wanted to leave because he couldnt understand the penalty or what it entailed but a reg kept consoling him telling him he would be allowed to play again very soon so he decided to stay.

weird old fish raises to 8 in with blinds 1/2... 200 eff stacks between us.

i raise from btn with KK to 40. i mean business.

a player in the blinds moves all in for like ~57.

weird old fish calls.

i call.

flop is K 8 3 r

weird old fish bets out 45.

are we calling or raising?
My first response was super easy call; after thinking about it some more, I'm not quite as sure but still think it's a call. Pot will be $261 after the call with only $98 behind. Board is bone dry, so there's very little scare cards that will kill action. I probably even check behind on the turn (so long as board doesn't get drawy) so that I give villain absolutely no opportunity to fold. The only arguments I can think of for fastplaying here is (a) really, how likely is villain to ever fold here (I dunno, he sounds retarded, he could) and moreso (b) will an A on the turn/river possibly kill our action (and there's a ~%16 chance of that happening).

ETA: I had a kinda similar hand I posted a few pages back where I flopped a set (but on an A high board where it seemed fairly obvious with preflop/flop that villain had an Ace). I fastplayed it (getting stacks such that I could push for 2/3 PSB on the turn on a fairly dry board) but now think it was the wrong play (i.e. villain managed a fold).
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:03 PM   #515
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

What's the right raise size here? $2/3 table has been quite loose with lots of big pots.

3 limps to me, I limp A3, 2 more limps

Flop ($18) T 8 6

ep older guy leads $17, huge degen fish on my right calls, I call, another fish calls (with about $150 behind after I stacked him).

Turn ($86) T 8 6 4

ep older guy leads $38 (with about $125 behind), fish folds, I raise to.... ?

Spoiler:
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:08 PM   #516
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuklearWinter View Post
What's the right raise size here? $2/3 table has been quite loose with lots of big pots.

3 limps to me, I limp A3, 2 more limps

Flop ($18) T 8 6

ep older guy leads $17, huge degen fish on my right calls, I call, another fish calls (with about $150 behind after I stacked him).

Turn ($86) T 8 6 4

ep older guy leads $38 (with about $125 behind), fish folds, I raise to.... ?

Spoiler:
Ha, I just noticed spoiler is revealed in text when quoting. Rats.

Anyhoo, I think just shove (i.e. $150 of fish behind us). The older guy I'd like to give okish 3:1 odds to chase, but that's basically $120 and his whole stack, and only leaves fish with a rather pointless $35 behind. So I get it in there now before a cooler card comes, hoping fish or old guy can't lay down great but 2nd best hands.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:12 PM   #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek View Post
My first response was super easy call; after thinking about it some more, I'm not quite as sure but still think it's a call. Pot will be $261 after the call with only $98 behind. Board is bone dry, so there's very little scare cards that will kill action. I probably even check behind on the turn (so long as board doesn't get drawy) so that I give villain absolutely no opportunity to fold. The only arguments I can think of for fastplaying here is (a) really, how likely is villain to ever fold here (I dunno, he sounds retarded, he could) and moreso (b) will an A on the turn/river possibly kill our action (and there's a ~%16 chance of that happening).

ETA: I had a kinda similar hand I posted a few pages back where I flopped a set (but on an A high board where it seemed fairly obvious with preflop/flop that villain had an Ace). I fastplayed it (getting stacks such that I could push for 2/3 PSB on the turn on a fairly dry board) but now think it was the wrong play (i.e. villain managed a fold).
we actually might be like 150bb deep here now that i think about it...

i raised to $100. i dont know if it was right.

he called.

turn was a 10 which the all in shortstack proceeded to yell and cheer about (lol) because he had AQ. yeah theres some special people in my games.

then just made the standard all in on turn for about $100 and he obv calls and turns up KJ.

so with his holding we did need to get him committed on flop in case an A came on the turn.
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:25 PM   #518
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by rizeagainst View Post
we actually might be like 150bb deep here now that i think about it...

i raised to $100. i dont know if it was right.

he called.

turn was a 10 which the all in shortstack proceeded to yell and cheer about (lol) because he had AQ. yeah theres some special people in my games.

then just made the standard all in on turn for about $100 and he obv calls and turns up KJ.

so with his holding we did need to get him committed on flop in case an A came on the turn.
Well obviously the deeper we are the less we slowplay because we want to make sure we can easily get stacks in by the river, but still sounds like we were fairly shortstacked here with regards to stack vs pot size.

I mean, if villain the case K then I'm cool with the raise. It just seems so unlikely he has the case K, so really we're worried about possibly getting QQ-TT or whatever to fold, with only a 8% chance an A falls on the turn. Course, if villain has TT then there's a boatload of scare cards that could fall on the turn versus is TT really going to call a flop raise...
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:31 PM   #519
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

im not sure he would have lead though with those pairs below K
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:04 PM   #520
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

another interesting question gobble.

what if weird old fish checks the flop? my first inclination is to still bet.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:09 PM   #521
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rizeagainst View Post
another hand...

there is a weird old fish at the table who is a clear mark. he plays somewhat nitty and seems like a very first level only thinking player. he only thinks about his cards and nothing else it seems. type of player that overvalues top pair and overpair hands in multiway hands. he got all his money in with AA on a previous hand on a QJ7 flop for about 100bb and spiked an A vs another dudes QJ and proceeded to have a celebration and taunting the other player and received a penalty from the floor and had to sit out a certain amount of hands. the following hand is the very next hand that ensued. this player wanted to leave because he couldnt understand the penalty or what it entailed but a reg kept consoling him telling him he would be allowed to play again very soon so he decided to stay.

weird old fish raises to 8 in with blinds 1/2... 200 eff stacks between us.

i raise from btn with KK to 40. i mean business.

a player in the blinds moves all in for like ~57.

weird old fish calls.

i call.

flop is K 8 3 r

weird old fish bets out 45.

are we calling or raising?
Easy call IMO. Nothing to fear here.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:12 PM   #522
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Now that I read you are 150BBs deep i prefer your line of small raise. If villian checks flop I bet an amount that he might shove on like $75.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:15 PM   #523
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

sorry about that. im not the greatest at logging all these details but im getting better
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:29 PM   #524
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by rizeagainst View Post
another interesting question gobble.

what if weird old fish checks the flop? my first inclination is to still bet.
That's my inclination too (and that's what I did with my flopped set of Ks, course there was an A on board so I kinda "knew" I was either getting paid off or I wasn't). I'd bet up to 1/2 PSB or whatever so that I can easily get stacks in (possibly by checking the turn and then getting it in on the river).
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:33 PM   #525
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

5/5 NL

Villain ~700 HJ. Young asian. Definitely positionally aware; opens much more often in late position. Has made some very thin value bets, but also called down a little too light at times, imo. Probably an Internet refugee who plays the leveling game when he doesn't need to. Not running very good. Is on his 2nd or 3rd BI.

Hero ~1300 in SB. On a bit of a heater after a rough start. Won a couple pots with big hands. Probably viewed by villain as competent but nothing special.

Villain opens 20 in HJ. Hero 3bets to 60 in SB with AJ. This is one of the few times I've 3bet OOP. Villain calls.

Flop (~125) J 8 3

When I see all hearts and the Jack, I pretty much decide that I'm going to c/c down and fold if another heart comes. (If K/Q hits I re-eval). If Villain has A and I lead, there's a good chance he raises on a semi, and I don't want to play for stacks with him or be forced to fold the best hand.

Am I on crack?

flop I c/c ~100. Turn blank I c/c ~150. River J I c/c 200.

Is cocaine a helluva drug?

Last edited by DeuceKicker; 04-20-2012 at 01:39 PM.
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