I'm not sure why I'm chriping back in here, but AKcc vs. 22 on that board does not end well for 22 1/3 of the time, and when big bets start going in on the river, 22 is probably behind.

Overall I think your strategy is mostly sound though. Small PP's are generally profitable hands as evidenced by many online players databases, which mostly consist of 100bb buy-in games and tougher lineups than we face here, and they are rarely folded preflop. Although the value is not just in making sets, but in playing them in position and bluffing well with them also.

I certainly realize that, but it's still a massively +EV spot for 22. I also agree that small PP are best played when you can do more than just setmine with them.

The only reason I jumped into this debate in the first place was to debunk the notion that you can't profitably setmine 22 for $10 with $300 effective stacks. Which is really the only point I'm still trying to make. It was doubly weird seeing the opposite position being taken by a poster who consistently revolves his entire PF strategy around denying opponents proper setmining odds.

If you think $600+ (200bb+) stacks can go in quite easily into $20 HU pots (or if a set of 22 is ahead when they do), then we simply play in much different games.

GI'mout,imoG

no they don't go in for YOU because people don't pay YOU off

Oh, that's right, I forgot how I see everyone else at the table getting in $600+ into $20 pots left and right and so far that's what my set tabling experiment is also showing.

Gaddressedforthe100thtimeG

hey fellaz I aint never poasted up in this thread b4. Was wondering if there was any interesting discussion going on

loooool

Lol best post so far.

Interesting preflop only spot vs likely blind shove.

1/2 live

BB has $32 left and has put it over the betting line before the cards are dealt. He says he’s going all in and I believe him. V1 and 2 are bad loose-ish recs. V3 is a thinking player, have talked hands with him before. He likely perceives hero as tight preflop and knows I’m a thinking winning player.

V1 ($140) limps v2 ($200) limps, V3 ($105 just lost a hand, doesn’t seem tilted) makes it $15 in the CO, I look down at AKo in the sb. I opted to just flat. My rationale was I can back raise once BB jams and v1 and v2 likely call. The problem with back raising is I know v3 is very likely opening a strong range here and is very likely to backraise himself. Since I’m not doing great agaisnt his GII range, I lose important fold equity by just flatting and then calling his jam. The problem with raising is I lose out on the dead money plus I don’t think I have a ton of fold equity agaisnt a hand like TT given that V3 is so short.

So I called, BB jams, v1 calls, V2 folds, v3 does in fact shove, and I shove. V1 folds.

Thoughts?

Regarding flatting 22 from MP:

GG, I can get behind your stance if you were say in the HJ and a competent player opened from the LJ, but the open was from UTG by a tight player. That means:

1. Our implied odds are even better than usual given the strength of his range.

2. Minimally observant players aren’t likely to 3 bet light here so we are likely getting a $10 flop.

hard to go wrong committing a 50bb effective stack with AKo. really, it's just about ranging v3 given he is choosing to raise in the face of the BB blind action.

with the v1 dead money in there, breakeven point for you was about a 5% range for v3.

Thoughts on double barreling here and sizing?

Limp, hero opens QJdd in the LJ $12, button and limper call. Limper is bad fit or fold rec. button is some kind of passive rec but I don’t have much history.

Pot:$36

Flop 8d5c2s.

So I’m often just checking with air 3 ways but I have some backdoors and it’s hard for anyone to have smashed this flop. My thought was to bet small on flop for two reasons.

1. I give myself a good price
2. It keeps their ranges wide so if they have a 5 or 2 I can bomb broadway turns and get them to fold later.

So I bet $15 and just the button calls.

Pot$63.

Turn: Ah.

I bet $50. Thoughts? If I get called here plan was to give up on river since he likely either spiked an A or is slowplaying something big so I might as well size large here to maximie fold equity.

Biggest problem with this line is that idk how many A high floats button has give my flop sizing.

I'd probably more overlimp preflop.

With hands this weak I don't mind the small cbet because we can fold out better (such as Ax, Kx, etc.) and can sometimes even get called by worse (ex: 76).

I'm typically double barrelling this turn care. The Ace hits our range and we have FE against hands that think we've now caught up. I just probably wouldn't go so large, as I think a $30 - $35 bet gets this done the same amount of times.

I'm giving up on the river, noting we have showdown value against 76 if it gives up.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Obviously, I disagree with GG on pre. But the planets have aligned as my thoughts are the same otherwise. Flop sizing is fine AP, turn $30ish should be fine, also give up on river AP.

Raise pre is fine, flop sizing good, I like your turn sizing, to really put hands like 8x, 99-JJ to a tough decision. I feel like $30/$35 will encourage a few too many sigh calls with that part of their range.

Pre is fine

3 words: delayed double barrel.

I'd check flop, we then get a street of information from everyone. If turn checks to us, we're typically only worried about getting through the button. We can then follow that up with a healthy river bet.

I think this works much better as a value line than a bluffing line, no?

GcluelessNLnoobG

Any line you take for value, you should also take as a bluff. DUCY?

Depends on the button I suppose, but typically nobody is buying what I am selling if I check the flop here (I can only bluff A or K turn cards).

That's why QJ is such a great hand to do either with here. T/9 give us equity, Q/J hit us and A/K is easy to rep. That's 47% of the deck. But 3 players is tougher to get through. If turn comes a low brick and someone leads we can fold pretty easily. If we bet, we need to continue

The problem with this is that (a) even though we pick up equity with T/9 no one is likely going to fold to our UI double barrel and (b) the A/K that we're beginning to rep mighta just hit someone (whereas a flop bet would have gotten rid of most of those).

GimoG

I'm cbetting a ton of my range in this spot. I'm ok with not trying to balance my checking range here. Could be a leak. I'll think about it.

Interesting point.

Regarding the people saying bet $30-35 I thought that was a solid option, and I definitely like it IP. OOP I wanted to fold out hands like 76 in case they bluff river since I can’t really check call, even if I hit a pair. There aren’t a ton of draws and not everyone will fire when they miss though so maybe the $30-35 option would be good.

As played river was a complete brick so I thought it was a pretty clear give up. Unfortunately he floated flop with AJ which he actually checked back on the river.

It must be nice to live in a world where your arguments benefit from having the best Vs possible. In your world Vs are so good that they fold overpairs all the time correctly yet be bad enough that they call down with what is possibly 3rd pair by the river because "we might be bluffing the overcards"

I'm not opposed to just playing the hand more straight forward, I was just giving an alternate that no one suggested that can be useful