Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2012, 01:21 AM   #26
elcebro
grinder
 
elcebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia
Posts: 619
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Hero (MP)($240) raises 1 ep limer to $10, BU, SB(Villain), and EP call.

Villain is white late30s 5/5+ pro spending time while no bigger game is available, he is good at every aspect of the game, really really good. He is TAG and doesn't try to tun the table over just beats his money out of people when he is ahead and bluffs if he senses weakness. Covers Hero.

Hero KcQc.
Flop: 2c8d9c [$42]
Checked to Hero cbets $30, Villain raises $100. Hero?
elcebro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 02:22 AM   #27
Bruno876
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 117
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcebro View Post
Hero (MP)($240) raises 1 ep limer to $10, BU, SB(Villain), and EP call.

Villain is white late30s 5/5+ pro spending time while no bigger game is available, he is good at every aspect of the game, really really good. He is TAG and doesn't try to tun the table over just beats his money out of people when he is ahead and bluffs if he senses weakness. Covers Hero.

Hero KcQc.
Flop: 2c8d9c [$42]
Checked to Hero cbets $30, Villain raises $100. Hero?
Here i would be hard pressed to find the fold button. Hero has 2 overs and a flush draw on a draw heavy board. I expect Villain to be raising with flush draws, overs, pairs, or even air. Stove some ranges, but at the table I think you have too much equity to fold and not enough behind to call. A shove is in order.
Bruno876 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 02:52 AM   #28
elcebro
grinder
 
elcebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia
Posts: 619
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

You can discount air. There was no signs of weakness from me and he doesn't suffer from fancy play sindrome. He definetely has smthing.
elcebro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 03:42 AM   #29
Pay4Myschool
Haz Chuck Norris 4 Dad
 
Pay4Myschool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Michigan / California
Posts: 7,474
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcebro View Post
Hero (MP)($240) raises 1 ep limer to $10, BU, SB(Villain), and EP call.

Villain is white late30s 5/5+ pro spending time while no bigger game is available, he is good at every aspect of the game, really really good. He is TAG and doesn't try to tun the table over just beats his money out of people when he is ahead and bluffs if he senses weakness. Covers Hero.

Hero KcQc.
Flop: 2c8d9c [$42]
Checked to Hero cbets $30, Villain raises $100. Hero?
I think whats important is what is your image to him? Does he consider you good?
Pay4Myschool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 03:51 AM   #30
elcebro
grinder
 
elcebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia
Posts: 619
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Yes he does. He knows I'm a winning player, we discuss strategy sometimes (offtable). This I was playing a little bit tighter then usual due to table dynamics. KQs is near the bottom of my MP raise range at this session, and he have noticed that for sure.

I think I was raising AJs+, AQo+, KQ, 99+ in this spot.
elcebro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 12:19 PM   #31
11t
Bo Pelini's #1 Fan
 
11t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Spewville
Posts: 29,248
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

You shove here 100% of the time,there it's too much in the put to fold
11t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 12:46 PM   #32
Bruno876
centurion
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 117
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcebro View Post
You can discount air. There was no signs of weakness from me and he doesn't suffer from fancy play sindrome. He definetely has smthing.
Assuming The villain has something, flush draw, pair, we still have great equity. In a worse case scenario
villain has a set:
we are drawing to 36%
or
Villain has a better flush draw (Axs)
we are drawing to 24%

given hero's image, this is a very good reraise by Villain. What part of that flop hit your range? There is no broadway cards on that board, the small cards are Very unlikely to have improved your hand. I would give villain any pairs, pairs, etc. This would be a great spot for him to have air. I mean, hero would C bet with AK right? QJ?

Best case scenario against a smaller pair
overs and flush draw 15 outs: 60%

given the pot i would still shove this all day long.
Bruno876 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 03:46 PM   #33
elcebro
grinder
 
elcebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia
Posts: 619
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I would not cbet into 4 ppl with AKo
elcebro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 06:15 PM   #34
Pay4Myschool
Haz Chuck Norris 4 Dad
 
Pay4Myschool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Michigan / California
Posts: 7,474
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcebro View Post
I would not cbet into 4 ppl with AKo
+1 this is burning so much money on this type of board. I hope no one cbets into 4 people without something.
Pay4Myschool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 07:59 PM   #35
chopper5654
adept
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St Louis
Posts: 896
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I can't see this thread being better than just posting individual hands. It's going to get hard for someone "late to the party" to catch up and follow all the hands and comments. Just my 2 cents. I think it slowly wrecks traffic, except for the die-hards.

As played...lol...QJdd, fold imo. A7cc, I am in the camp of raising some and optioning some. I think this is very image dependent for both you towards villains and them towards you. KQcc, I can certainly see a ship, but don't think you get enough folds to make it profitable based on the small read you have. I also think it's too nitty to fold, but I'm not liking a call much, either. As played, I likely call....but, I'm a hypocrite. That $100 was a great raise size.
chopper5654 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 06:28 PM   #36
Garick
Oberbiergenießer
 
Garick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Do you even math, bruh?
Posts: 15,617
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I recommend we de-sticky this. It will get a lot more attention floating around the page than it does up with the stickies that, let's be honest, most people never even notice.
Garick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 09:57 PM   #37
Mook
journeyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Limping in with 76s, because Philly
Posts: 200
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno876 View Post
given the pot i would still shove this all day long.
You must either shove or fold this reraise. Must. There's no third option even worth considering.

I mean, what are you hoping for if you flat here? Getting to see another card against a villain who's an excellent post-flop player and probably has your range narrowed way down already? Wow, some treat.

Personally I push here 100% of the time and am happy to take down the pot the majority of the time when he folds.
Mook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2012, 01:15 AM   #38
Johnny 99
grinder
 
Johnny 99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 610
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/3
Guy raises to 15 utg. He has raised c. 8 out of the last 10 hands. Seems out of line frequently. Has about $390. 2 weakish players call. I raise QsQc to $60 on button. UTG tanks, looks to almost fold and calls. One fold, last caller calls.

I haven't shown down a hand since UTG has sat about 2 hours before. He's been too busy yappin' with the people who have given him action to notice, imo.

$200 or so in pot.
4h6x8h

Checked to me, I bet $80, UTG calls, other guy folds.
Turn: $360-- (4h6x8h) 7h UTG checks, I check with the plan to call almost any river card.
River: 2c, UTG pushes for $250, I call
Johnny 99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2012, 10:23 AM   #39
11t
Bo Pelini's #1 Fan
 
11t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Spewville
Posts: 29,248
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

if you are on the button/CO versus weak passive players who are kind of stationy, what range are you raising PF to isolate
11t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2012, 12:44 PM   #40
Johnny 99
grinder
 
Johnny 99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 610
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11t View Post
if you are on the button/CO versus weak passive players who are kind of stationy, what range are you raising PF to isolate
Against aggressive utg raiser, I do this with JJ+. I expected them to go away as $60 is a lot of money. Without aggro utg, maybe TT or 99+
Johnny 99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2012, 01:01 PM   #41
AcePlayerDeluxe
Cant C Flat Aint My Tone
 
AcePlayerDeluxe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,561
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny 99 View Post
1/3
Guy raises to 15 utg. He has raised c. 8 out of the last 10 hands. Seems out of line frequently. Has about $390. 2 weakish players call. I raise QsQc to $60 on button. UTG tanks, looks to almost fold and calls. One fold, last caller calls.

I haven't shown down a hand since UTG has sat about 2 hours before. He's been too busy yappin' with the people who have given him action to notice, imo.

$200 or so in pot.
4h6x8h

Checked to me, I bet $80, UTG calls, other guy folds.
Turn: $360-- (4h6x8h) 7h UTG checks, I check with the plan to call almost any river card.
River: 2c, UTG pushes for $250, I call
Why are you giving him almost 4:1 OTF? Anyone else have a problem with close to a pot sized bet? I'm pretty much clicking buttons OTF and shoveling chips into it.
AcePlayerDeluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2012, 02:48 PM   #42
11t
Bo Pelini's #1 Fan
 
11t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Spewville
Posts: 29,248
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny 99 View Post
Against aggressive utg raiser, I do this with JJ+. I expected them to go away as $60 is a lot of money. Without aggro utg, maybe TT or 99+
I mean when they are open limping
11t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2012, 03:47 PM   #43
PokahBlows
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,005
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

The hand is played terrible. Why are you check calling any river?

Flop bet seems weak. Overall line 3bet/meh c-bet/c/call with queens on a 3flush board. I see flaws in that line and your thinking.
PokahBlows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2012, 06:17 PM   #44
Johnny 99
grinder
 
Johnny 99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 610
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows View Post
The hand is played terrible. Why are you check calling any river?

Flop bet seems weak. Overall line 3bet/meh c-bet/c/call with queens on a 3flush board. I see flaws in that line and your thinking.
I didn't think $80 into $200 was that weak. When the 3 flush hit, I presumed I was either way ahead and could pick up the pot, or behind and would commit my stack. By checking, I thought I could induce if any non heart, non Ace hit.

Whether it was good thinking or not, he did bet

And pre-flop, what do you suggest? Meh?
Johnny 99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 02:45 PM   #45
TAOxEaglex
old hand
 
TAOxEaglex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,584
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Do you guys change from optimal play just because you have made this same play too frequently in the past orbit or two?

For example, if you have cbet on good cbet boards twice in the past orbit and another good cbet board comes a third time?

Or if you get check-raised a bunch of times by different people in a smallish time frame, all of which are standard folds in a vacuum?

I always get nervous if I make the same play too many times and I usually deviate just for the hell of it. Should I just keep playing my game until I get exploited?
TAOxEaglex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 03:45 PM   #46
11t
Bo Pelini's #1 Fan
 
11t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Spewville
Posts: 29,248
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

If villain is weak and is "waiting for a hand" then c-bet away but the more people are aware of your image the more careful you need to be of that image. That is to say, if people know you are c-betting 100% then they will stop respecting your c-bets.

Metagame is important but it is up to you to decide how important it is.
11t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 09:50 PM   #47
Slasher1
banned
 
Slasher1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: LLSNL thread
Posts: 263
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

well said 11t ++1
Slasher1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 12:59 PM   #48
Johnny 99
grinder
 
Johnny 99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 610
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Here's a general question. Say there are 4 limpers in a 1/3 game, sb completes, you complete in BB w/ Jd4h.

$16 in pot after rake and Jackpot. Flop is Jc3c7d

SB checks, hero???

I have tried a number of ways to handle this. Would love to see what forum does here.
Johnny 99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 02:23 PM   #49
TAOxEaglex
old hand
 
TAOxEaglex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,584
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Bet $10 and see what happens. If you get any callers just go for pot control until showdown. Be aware people will call and might even bet OTT and/or OTR with 2nd and 3rd pair. Any excessive aggression warrants a fold.
TAOxEaglex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 04:16 PM   #50
elcebro
grinder
 
elcebro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Russia
Posts: 619
Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

check fold?
elcebro is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online