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Old 10-14-2017, 02:25 PM   #4501
setintostraight
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

The 25 raise, I was UTG + 1, I believe.

MP and BB called (no good reads on either one, except maybe BB is a bit loose pre), flop was a bunch of bricks, like 7 10 2 rainbow.

BB checks, I lead out slightly less than PSB (~65), MP folds, BB thinks for about 20 seconds and seriously considers calling but then folds.

Now I probably could have gotten more value out of BB, but hands like these aren't my big concern. It's mostly the hands where I end up just taking the blinds because I bet too big pre. Is there any value in raising top pairs (QQ+) smaller against low stakes live villains to barrel on the flop for like 1.25 PSB?

PS. I probably need to start writing down my hands, because of terrible memory.
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Old 10-14-2017, 07:38 PM   #4502
DeathCabForTootie
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

It's fine, you're not always gonna get called when a board is dry like that.
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Old 10-16-2017, 11:44 AM   #4503
gobbledygeek
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by setintostraight View Post
This is more of a general question for you guys:

How do you get more value and less callers with a premium pocket pair pre? I've tried betting 21 at 1-3 with QQ UTG only to get like 3 callers (1 of whom got there on the river with J9o).

The other day I bet 25 with AA and still get 2 callers who only folded to a big lead on the flop.

Tonight I bet 18 with AA, since the table was sizing generally smaller, and everyone folded to me. Is this considered a good outcome? Just winning the blinds? Did I just get unlucky in the sense that no one had a hand good enough to 3! ?

Should I work on my image more? I hate getting big pairs when I just sit down b/c idk what to do with them or how to size my raise (e.g. first orbit I have no reads on anyone on the table). It seems I either size too small and get myself into a scary flop or I just win the blinds. Tips on extracting more value would be appreciated.
This is why I think limp/reraising, especially at aggro preflop tables, especially OOP, is the way too go with our big hands.

Taking down the blinds with big hands is a pretty meh result.

Expecting someone to 3bet is also a pretty meh tactic, at least at my table which is fairly passive in this regards, my guess being that hands like AK/QQ are *far* more often flatted than 3bet.

But getting in a small percentage of our stack and going ~5ways OOP is also a pretty poor result. Or, at least in my opinion. If you're fine with that result, then obviously do that.

Limp/reraising solves this problem.

If it limps around, ok, whatever, we play very cautiously in a high SPR pot (perhaps even going into underrep check/calling mode right away) and dump our hand to any undesired action (if we fold the best hand in a small pot once and a while, whatever, no big deal). Thanks to the high SPR, we'll have lots of room to hopefully figure out if our hand is good, keep the pot small, etc. and every once and I'll while we'll bink a monster and simply go for value.

If we limp/reraise, we get two possible results, both of which are really good. If we take down all the dead money preflop (untaxed in my room), not a bad result, especially at a typical loose big raise table (seeing a raise to $20 and 3 callers is not uncommon at my table, so taking down $80 uncontested preflop is a pretty fantastic result even with AA). And if anyone calls our limp/reraise, whatever, they've put in far too much of their stack to be profitable and we can simply comfortably stack off postflop most times (assuming no retarded flop, assuming not incredibly large stacks).

At least, that's how I look at things.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:30 AM   #4504
Garick
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I deleted the backing post as it is not low--stress strat, nor any other kind of strat, and thus does not belong in this thread. It was not deleted by accident, and I will be deleting the repost and its replies. Please don't restart that discussion ITT again. There is a forum for staking.
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Old Yesterday, 04:54 PM   #4505
QuantumSurfer
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

TT vs 3bets

5/5 game. Hero just table changed. 1k stack vs most of the table.

UTG, whom I never played with but know is a Spaniard who came to the states for poker, so likely plays onthewebz, opens to $25. 2 people call and BTN who's also a Spaniard coming stateside for live poker 3bets to $130. Hero in sb looks at TT. One of the limpers I know will likely call if it gets around to him from previous play. Standard flat? UTG should be on the tighter side per read, but not OMC live tight and BTN should be aware of that... & they're also friends so there's that dynamic...
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Old Yesterday, 05:25 PM   #4506
ChrisV
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Seems like a pretty easy fold to me. Pretty serious risk of a 4bet from UTG.
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Old Today, 01:45 AM   #4507
-SOBO-
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

4bet>fold>call imo
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Old Today, 01:57 AM   #4508
ChrisV
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Don't get the logic behind 4betting. It's basically a bluff. If I'm going to bluff 4bet, I'd rather have something like a suited ace, that way I have a blocker to them having AK or AA. Equity is similar - TT is 33.7% against { JJ+, AK } and A6s, for instance, is 28.3%.
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Old Today, 07:12 AM   #4509
Petrucci
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
Seems like a pretty easy fold to me. Pretty serious risk of a 4bet from UTG.

Yup, pretty much. Both ranges is also uncapped here and consists of lots of the hands that having us smoked JJ+. Also its hard to navigate postflop if we just call and go 3 ways to the flop here with a very small SPR. Were gonna get forced into stackoff territory on many boards, into no mans land because we have little info to work with- and we are not able to range people remotely accurately here.

Finally we are in a bad position when we play from the SB.

Easy fold everything considered if you ask me.
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