I edited my post

Do you see competent (granted 1/3, could be over thinking on my part) snap betting a 9c on turn/river?


Thoughts on flop/turn?

Honestly think I could have misplayed every street on this hand

I typically just flat preflop here. We're deep (we're not happy setting up commitment decisions). We're in position (we can just play postflop). We're in LP (there's a decent chance this'll go HU anyways). There's no other significant dead money in the pot worth fighting over (especially relative to stacks). Meh, but I'm passive like that.

As played, preflop (for better or worse) we setup an SPR of 3 and just flopped an overpair. If we're not doing this to commit by the turn on non A/K boards, I'm not sure why we're doing this. I PSB flop to shove blank turns and I'm not folding to shove. We went past the point of no return preflop, no point in slowing down now, imo.

I ship the turn. We've now moved ahead of anything that ain't a flush and even then we can still boat up. Pot is huge. More than a handful of horrendous river cards.

The question on the river isn't whether to fold or not (I'm folding 0% of the time). The question is whether we should just call or shove the rest in.

You played postflop the exact same way I would have played postflop *if* I flatted preflop. I don't understand why we played it this way given our 3bet.

ETA: Didn't realize the 4-to-a-flush came in on the turn, my bad. Still think we should have committed on the flop given preflop.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Thanks GG.

I just want to point out that if I don't 3! Pre, there is a small chance it goes HU. The next 3 players to my left were very happy to call with a wide variety of hands - I open from UTG, get flatted by guy in my immediate left with 96s - as well as the limpet calling there with a wide range. there were multiple times that 3! Pots get cold calls and overcalls going 3-5 way, so I couldn't even say with certantity that me 3! Gets this HU.

@johnny, yeah, absolutely reraise this pre.

Flop really depends on how straightforward you think villain plays with 99/JJ/Tx and the Ac. Our hand needs protection, esp B/c we don't have the Qc, so it's important to bet IF we're confident villain won't spazzraise worse or aggressively bomb it with AcKd or similar hands. If you choose to bet (80ish seems good), then bet/fold.

Turn is a clear flat, please do NOT ship lol

river seems close. I'd probably sigh-fold, knowing we have flushes ourselves to call with (AK,AQ,A2-A5 of clubs should be reraised pre and could check flop sometimes, along with AcKx, KcKx)

Well that certainly makes things more difficult.

I'll admit, I have a difficult time with QQ preflop and probably lean towards playing them far more passively than most if I'm not comfortable committing stacks with them.

GmrpassiveG

Live early morning 2/5 on the Vegas strip. You are what appears to be a solid professional who has bought into this uncapped game for $2k or 400bb. A bad player opens to $20 in EP, another bad player calls, and a ~30yo extremely handsome white guy, obviously awake since yesterday, raises to $100 in the cutoff with $600 behind (after the raise).

You now cold 4 bet to $330 from the small blind. What is your range here?

According to my friend, it's QQ+. Can that really be right? What are you doing if you find yourself with AQs, or TT/JJ in that spot? Flatting doesn't seem good at all, but can you really just fold? Again, the cutoff's 3 bet is over 2 weak players, which is probably obvious to you.

We're gonna need more on V's profile than 30yo, handsome WG. Reason being, we can't define our 4bet range before deciding why we're 4betting. What player tendencies has V displayed: TAG, LAG, SLAG, Fish, Nit, etc.? Do you want V to fold, call or ship? Interesting situation but we need the why before we can construct the how.

w/o history his range is just going to be QQ+ and some AK
w/ history it could be wider/tighter

No history with V, he recently sat in the game. I'm playing super tight (card dead, whiffing 100% of the time, and big game with regular $20 btn straddles and uncapped buyins) and am visibly tired, so no kind of winning image. I ended up folding QQ and felt rather weak about it afterwards. Maybe that wasn't horrible after all? Is V really just folding AQs and JJ in that spot?

There's no way I'm folding QQ there. Given a standard open & call from two weaker players, V (if halfway competent) will be squeezing often and/or iso'ing for value (of which only 12 combos you're behind). You read V as being up since yesterday which would also widen his range. A 4bet will set an SPR <1 so you're GII on the flop, OR, you could flat and evaluate.

1/2 - I'm bad at remembering hands so bear with me.

V (200ish?) is early 30s European guy, didn't catch where, tight as far as I can tell, he's only been at the table maybe an hour.
H (~450) Late 20's AWG TAG "always has it" image.

Hero QcTh in BB

Limp, V raises in the COish to 12, I call, limper calls. Probably a fold but I can exploit the tight player and I'm fairly sure limper is coming along, he's drinking and playing pots.

Flop: QdTc2d

I check, V bets 13, I raise to 35. (Bigger here?), limper folds, V calls. I decide this guy's been playing tight, he's not raising to 12 pf usually, he must have kk/aa here and when he calls my raise it confirms it for me. In an ideal world assuming I'm right I'm hoping V gets it in on the flop as most would with kk/aa but being tight, he just calls. Evaluate my thinking here?

Turn: 4c

I bet 55. V calls. This is ugly sizing, I need to go for more value here. I have a hard time translating sizing to live in the moment and it's something I've gotten better with but need to improve on.

River: 3d

I feel I'm comfortable with my read that he has AA/KK. But the diamond scares me, there's plenty of AdXd in his range. I feel like check/call is better than betting here, and this is where my question lies. Theres about 200 in this pot, he only has maybe 100 behind, so really this should be a pretty easy jam I guess? Or should I just check/call so that there are some bluffs in his range? But are there any bluffs in his range at this point? And if we check and he bets the 100 we're never folding are we? Ultimately is there enough Ad/Xd in his range to check here?

I check, he checks back. I flip, he gives the "I lost with the big hand" look and mucks his hand so I think we were right on the AA/KK read but I think we lose big value on river.

thoughts welcome

Pre is really bad. Like a huge leak.

Dont take check call lines when scare cards come, take check call lines when they miss. So either check fold or jam. Id jam.

For sizing, think of the pot size as a unit. So for example a $100 pot becomes one unit, and a villain with $400 therefore has 4 units. A unit sized bet of $100 will leave an spr of 1 on the turn, or the unit pot will equal the unit stack of villain. ($300)

Play around with this for a bit and youll get the hang of it

Just curious as to what others would do:

1/3 late sat/early sun @ casino

V1 ($160, UTG): MABG bemoaning his luck, upset at the world, blaming everyone else's poor play on his loses. Already got in a verbal spat with a guy who wanted to run out blind v blind to try to hit the high hand, V wanted no part of it and was kind of a dick about it.

V2 ($300, CO): MAWG, just sat down, no info on him.

Hero (covers, LJ): V1 only knows me from 1 previous HH from about 10 minutes prior:

------ previous history ------
V1 UTG blind raises to 35 (money was out before cards dealt), folds to hero, raises to 110 from SB with AQs, V1 rips it in for 200 total without looking, H calls, MHIG.

♠️♥️♣️♦️ OTTH ♦️♣️♥️♠️
(Note: V1 seat changed from my left to my right)

V1 blind raises UTG to $27 (he's in seat 1, in in 4 directly across, 100% verify he did not look)
Folds to hero in LJ who raises to 75 with A♦️Q♥️
V2 thinks for like 25 seconds and calls
V1 snap calls without looking

Flop (223): J84r

V1 says "I'm going all in if I hit", checks cards, bets $85 to be all in

Hero? (V2 has $225 remaining)

I think what I did was correct, just curious to see what everyone else thinks though

Think I'm sigh folding. We're getting close to breakeven odds to chase our overs (although I guess there is a chance we are ahead), but they might not be clean, and it's concerning someone just flatted a huge 3bet preflop for $75 behind us. We're basically hoping the guy behind has AK and folds (sucking up one of our outs), cuz I'm not sure he's folding a big pair.

ETA: Although another part of me wants to shove and perhaps fold out the big pairs who don't 3bet preflop and might hero fold, but that might only be like TT cuz JJ got there and QQ never folds this flop, right? Meh. ETA: Plus if I'm this guy, I probably flat AA/KK with these stacks a lot, so we still run into those too.

GIthink?G

Puke fold b/c V2 spoiled our plans by getting in with a likely range of TT+/AK.

I sigh fold to, because of the cold call from v2 pre. I suspect that range to be relatively strong and nutted, in Vegas this summer the new trend is to do this with QQ/KK/AA to trap.

At least i would guess its loads of JJ/QQ in it.

so i actually raised to 200 (i just grabbed a stack of green without counting)

thinking was that V2 has seen me bet big with non-nut hands pre, so rec players tend to play face up in this situation IME. Like, i think he raises QQ+, JJ is unlikely because of combos, and TT- (save 88 & 44) is going to fold to a stiff breeze. V1 was completely blind until the flop, if he's shipping with anything or nothing, who knows. unless he just got lucky, he has at best 1 pair and we're getting direct odds with 2 overs. so i just needed to push out V2

Results:

Seems to me that you just happened to run into the nut low in V2's range, no?

Glucky,imoG

I'm not really sure. The way V2 should be playing here is shove pre with QQ/JJ, AA/KK can call or shove (I would call and shove flop). My gen pop read is that they do the opposite though, AA/KK would shove pre, QQ/JJ would call to see a safe runout, but so would AK.

Only 3 combos each of QQ/JJ and 12 of AK. The fact that he showed up with AQ just means he's even wider. TT isn't calling here post, but he probably calls pre. 99 is debatable pre, but you never know, same post.

Even if you say he calls pre with his entire range of {TT+,AK} and he folds underpairs/no pairs post,
he's calling
AA,QQ,JJ: 9
KK: 6
Folding
AK: 12
TT: 6

We get him to fold 18 hands we're behind while only calling 15

If he's loose enough to flat AQ preflop, then I'm not convinced he's always folding TT/99 on this flop (and 88 might come into play). The only hand that will likely always fold postflop is AK (and of course the hand he ends up having, which is still probably his nut low hand).

So if we put him on 88+/AQ+, and say that he'll fold TT/99 half the time to a flop shove, that's 24 calls vs 27 folds (if I've counted right).

That's probably a lot closer than I originally thought (i.e. I thought he'd rarely be folding the flop). Maybe it's not too bad given our decent 3:1 odds against V1 who might have anything?

ETA: Although if V1 has a pair (is that a fair assumption?) wouldn't this be bad? Half the time we get snapped off by a hand that is never folding and sometimes our outs aren't all clean against V2, and the other half of the time we're barely breaking ~evenish if V1 has a pair (and doing poorly if he's reverse dominating us / has better than a pair).

Gbrainhurtsatthispoint,I'mnotconfidentinanyanswerG

But were you drunk?

Oh wait that's cAmmAndo

If V1s range is {88+,Jx,8x,4x}, our equity is 21.59%, our equity needed is 85/395, or 21.52%, so it's break even.

If you expand his range to 22+, our equity is 22.09%

If you go even further and add all 2 overcard hands, our equity is 24.07%

So it's break even at best. But it's also only 85 bucks to set a gambling image for the table (which paid off later)

Yeah but those breakevenish equities are only against V1. Don't we have to factor in V2 for $225?

I'm also not incredibly sold on the "set up gambling image to get paid off later". It's hard to make hands and even harder to do ASAP (when the people who think you are a gambloorer are still at the table, which within an hour they could easily not be); good chance you simply got paid off cuz they suck or the hand was going to play out that way anyways. Course, if it's a breakeven gambool gambool proposition, then by all means; I'm just not sure it is here (atthough it might be, I'm not sure).

GbutmybrainhurtsG

Kinda played this hand on autopilot, so my bad on that.

Side V: House player that short-stacks and very top-of-range/fold post flop.

Main V: Sat down two orbits ago. c/rai with an OESD for 100bb if not more in a 3 way pot OTF. SPR was ~7. V had called a pf raise with mid unsuited connectors.

5/5 game ~800 eff.

Hero opens JJ $20, Side V calls, Main V calls from the BTN.

$59

842 rainbow.

H $45, fold, V $145, H flats

$349

9 blank

x, V$225, c


Ax

x, V tanks for a while looking serious/nervous and goes $300, Hero?

advice on all streets appreciated.