Ok, but what would you do on the turn?

For the record I snap-folded. Maybe I should quit poker. Didn't see villain's hand.

Can I get some guidance on C-betting with sticky opponents? I seem to get a lot of loose players, and they will call down with middle or bottom pair, or draws on the flop.

Say I have AKs in EP or MP. Effective stacks $200-300. Flop is Q95, and I get called by A9, plus three other players, this is for a $16 pre flop bet at 1-2 NL. C-betting will get rid of the two players, but not mr. middle pair. Turn gives him a flush draw, but if I fire 2nd barrel on the turn for any reasonable amount (flop pot is already $64), say 2/3 of pot is $40, now there's $100, so he calls but misses his flush draw. I miss everything, so I'm looking at 3rd barrel with air, for at least $100, and he still might call.

How else to play this hand? Give up on any flop with sticky opponents when >2 callers? This seems to come up ALL THE TIME.

Options:
Check and hope for a good turn card.
Fire out for more than the pot size on the flop
C-bet for less (say 1/2 pot) and give up on the turn in the face of any interest.
Raise more pre flop?

Otherwise, in this scenario, I'm in for $16 + $40 + $60 on turn and that's 1/2 my stack, looking at a river situation where I have no idea where I am because he doesn't raise, doesn't fold, just keeps on calling...

Super standard? Links to ideas?

This is a really bad flop for AK and for barreling. You will make money off these players when you do hit. Barreling air is generally not good vs most live opponents.

Basically just tighten up your C-betting range. Also, a lot of these players will
Play their hands face up, you may be able
To get away with a delayed C-bet if no one bets in to you on the turn.

The more people in the hand, the less you CBet. I basically never bother CBetting at $1-2 when 3 people call me and I miss.

Thanks. It's frustrating seeing guys win pots with bad hands, but sometimes I get into patterns that turn out to be easily recognizable...And I like the idea of in position seeing if he checks twice and firing then. And in re-reading some of the strategy threads....remembering that c-betting with air vs. multiple players is not likely to be worthwhile in the long run.

That said, a LOT of the strategy threads in the archive are really outdated now...people adjust, a lot of them are for online, short-handed, etc...

Also another thing I realized, note that I said 1-2NL, $15 raise getting 3 callers...I'm playing in a deep stacked game, several players getting to 500BB stacks, I'm usually shorter than that...so basically in spite of a $2 BB it's playing more like 2-5, and I think I need to be making larger pf raises to get HU to the flop.

I often play in games like this - where I'm relatively shallow and my raises get multi-way. With AK I'm usually trying to get it AI pre against these guys ... or get in relatively cheap, hit the flop and try to get all in. (Im talking about <100bb).

So one approach might be to check or bet small in EP - if you get raised then 3 bet all in. Or if in late position... make a really big raise ($25). That should ensure you don't get 4 callers. Then you can make a cbet that really stings. Or just go to a passive stance on AK - and only continue on flops you hit - but play them aggr.

1/3 NL, 10 handed

Main villain (covers) in this hand is pretty unknown, it's my first time playing with him. Late 20's white kid, not doing anything too flashy, seems fairly ABC. But his big stack came a little weird: he ends up HU OOP preflop with Axhh (perhaps as big as AThh, can't remember) to an early EP raiser. J high flop (can't recall if the flush draw was on the flop), he check/calls. Turn definitely has his flush draw, which he then donks, and he then calls a minish raise. K river bringing his flush and not pairing the board (he has the nuts), which he then checks with a ~PSB left; raiser ships his rivered set, he snaps.

3 or 4 limps. Active fishy guy in CO raises to $15, he could have a pretty wide range here. He's only $200 deep, but I and a few others are $400 deep. I'm on the Button with ATdd. If I call, we are most likely going 5ways to the flop. I'll have position on everyone. But I'll have bad relative position to the raiser, although multiway someone in EP might play their hand more honestly (instead of checking to the raiser). There is a slight chance someone has limped to limp/reraise. I call. Meh?

5way to T87hh flop. Everyone checks to me. I $40 into $75. More?

HU with Villain who calls in EP. 2r turn. He donks $50 into $155. I just call? Not in love with raising to commit. I'm planning on calling a reasonable river bet so long as a straight/flush doesn't complete. Meh?

Ar river. Villain checks. Pot is $250. I gots to bet, right, targetting smaller two pairs or non-believing pair who puts me on a busted draw? I $125, meh sizing?

GcluelessNLnoobG

@ GG, 3-bet pre. We've got position and a hand that rates to be best vs a wide range. I'm okay with taking down some dead money if we get folds. If he 4-bets, we're never good and we can lay it down. If he calls, we've got initiative with a hand that can make nuttish hands.

AP, bet flop more, turn call is fine. Jam river.

Does anyone have recommendations/posts I could study to get a good understanding of when to C-Bet? I think a serious leak in my game right now is c-betting too much and also c-betting too much when I am likely ahead but will never be called by worse. Thanks.

@ DCFT

Only really thought of the 3bet preflop line on the drive home. I think I would have with like a weak Axs, but almost felt this hand was too strong where I could welcome 5way action being LP; not sure if I'm thinking about things right there.

I've been wondering if I'm missing some value by betting flops too small, as I seem to be leaning towards ~1/2 PSBs with non monsters which I can fold if draws come in instead of ~3/4 PSBs, and those 1/4 PSBs probably add up to a lot of missed value overall. But then I'm also trying to straddle the line of not building a huge pot with a mediocre hand too, especially in multiway pots.

I was all over the place on the river. Part of me though of betting way less (like $85) to make sure weak pairs (and maybe weak two pair) call. But I also like the idea of the slight overbet jam to look like I'm trying to blow him off something with my busted draw. I settled on in-between. Meh?

GnothappywiththishandatallG

AT is not a hand I want to play 5-handed.

In order to figure out what to bet on each street, construct a realistic range for each of your opponents. Then figure out what is the optimal bet size given your opponent's range on a specific flop. If he is full of weak hands on a flop, bet less. If he rates to be strong and our hand rates to be better versus his strong range, bet more.

Edit: Eh, on secont thought probably not loving jamming unless this guy has extreme station tendencies. Given the action, he looks to have some sort of top pair that block bet the turn and wants a cheap showdown. If we're bluffing, I stuff it. Since we're betting for value, 1/2 pot bet looks fine.

@bro... heres a link to the COTM covering c-betting

Standard spot... what do you do?

At a fairly passive 1/2 table... raises about 50% pre and 3 bets about 10%. Lots of limping.

4 limpers to CO (one of the couple of decent TAG players in game). He raises to $15 (standard). I call(?) OTB with AQo. This begins a parade of callers. We go 6 way to the flop ($85). Flop is T52r. Checked to OR who checks. I think about the situation a bit..... I'm MAWG with a very very clean image here... only showed 2 or 3 hands and all premium. Few times I've shown aggression - I've shown a lot.. ie. betting/barrelling. I decide to bet $50 to pick up the orphan pot and everyone folds.

The SB tool the longest to fold and and told me he folded T9. He asked me what I had and I told him a set and he nodded that he 'figured that'.

Obvious this worked in this situation but could have had me drawing near dead to a flopped set or 2p (a little unlikely). But I figured that if I got called it'd likely be to a good Tx and I'd probably be able to see both turn and river. Thoughts on this kind of play? Needlessly reckless - or a decent occasional ROI play with the right image?

I like looking for spots to pick up orphaned pots, but not against 5 opponents. Even on rainbow flows w few draws, somebody almost always takes one off.

Thanks Jake.

Give me AT suited on the button and I'll play it multiway all day.

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2/5 9 handed

Btn straddled($300, fish)


UTG +2 (middle aged guy 50's , $320 not horrible not good enough to worry about) limps for $5 not realising the straddle, puts in the other $5.

Folds to H in CO ($ Covers) raises $45 w/ AdAc

Btn folds, limped tanks 10 seconds, calls

Flop ($100) T 9 2 rainbow

V CHECK H bets $75, V Calls

Turn($250) Jc board Tx9x2cJc . V Checks. Hero bets $200 V calls all in


Anyone doing anything different?

Not the best of boards in the world but I still like the line. Worse can and certainly will call.

Nh, sorry he had JT

Pretty ridiculous to consider checking turn given effective stacks, right?

Yes, he could have QJ for just one example

Given the straddle and the preflop raise size this is essentially a 5/T hand. We are playing with 30bbs here. When villain calls pre, I'm expecting to be shoveling in the money on most boards. Cut the turn numbers in half and you have the equivalent 2/5 hand..ie the pot would be $125 and villain would have $100 left.

Ya V had 99. Been posting these types of hands knowing myself they are quite trivial but wanting to get other replies for my pops to understand hands more in depth as to why a lot of these unavoidable spots I've been getting into have contributed to my 4.5 buyin downswing. As he is getting more interested in playing himself . Thanks guys