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Old 03-10-2015, 03:08 PM   #2726
DeathCabForTootie
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by kimoser22 View Post
Grunch tbh I just shove preflop as he prob will call with his entire 3 ball range(as described) maybe he folds JJ but you are still ahead of his calling range plus FE equal fist pump GII, as played standard against 100 percent c-bet villain
I don't understand - why do we want fold equity versus this particular villain? Am I missing something?
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Old 03-11-2015, 12:19 AM   #2727
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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I don't understand - why do we want fold equity versus this particular villain? Am I missing something?
you don't really need it to get it in, as your hand is better than what most llsnl player will call with, with that said you will never get bluffed of the hand if an A pops up on the flop...more mentioned FE as AJ, AQ hands will just leave dead money in the pot as they most likely will fold to your shove and if they dont all the better for you.
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Old 03-18-2015, 08:22 PM   #2728
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
Going through an 80-hour break-even stretch so I'm questioning my lines a lot more now. Been noticing I've been running bad in large pots, so I want to make sure to plug any leaks.

9-handed, $1/2, $350 effective, Villain covers.

V is a middle-aged drunk LAGasian sitting on roughly $1600. Hero doubled through when I flopped the nut flush versus his K-high flush and the money went in on the turn. Hero has been very quiet other wise due to being card-dead and the table being truly bonkers for a mid-afternoon on a Monday. Hero has c-bet a few flops and has folded to x/r by villain. Villain has been stradding every hand. He had 100% been raising limpers when he straddled but has slowed down and has been checking his option more recently. Villain is very bluffy, has bluffed in ridiculous spots and has doubled up a couple other players but has also been getting very good value when he's flopped good.

V straddles from UTG+1, two limpers, hero raises to $20 with KK (definite mistake, should have made it $25-30). Folds to V who 3-bets to $105. Hero hasn't seen villain 3-bet at all since I sat down roughly 90-minutes before, so I assign a 3-bet range of JJ+, AK, possibly AQ. Limpers fold. Hero calls with $225 behind, planning on getting it in on any board without an ace as hero expects villain to bet 100% of his range.

Flop is J54

Villain bets $140, hero shoves for $85 more, hating that we don't have the K Villain calls.

Like/Hate my line?
Just GII pre. Board texture will make basically zero difference to how the hand plays out (stacks go in), because with a PSB behind you're committed on every single flop against a drunk LAGtard.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:21 PM   #2729
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Ha! Forgot about this hand, and after a lot of thought I too think GII pre is the way to go because he was so bad he wasn't folding (as is the same with most LLSNL players). Villain flopped top set natch and scooped.
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Old 03-18-2015, 09:23 PM   #2730
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Yeah there was no getting away from it lol, this flop was the nut worst for your hand, and you still had like 30-34% or thereabouts.
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:50 AM   #2731
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

2/5 nl, three orbits in or so. initial impression is that table is of slightly below average quality of player. most solid player is on my left. three on my right (PFR in this hand) has been mildly unpredictable in the hands i've seen.

hero 500, table covers.

three limpers to MP who raises to 20. one call, i call on button with 85ss, bb calls, all limpers call. we see the flop seven ways.

flop: 589 rainbow, not the 9 of spades.

BB checks. As UTG reaches for chips, the PFR puts out two green chips. dealer informs PFR that it is not on him, UTG has yet to act. UTG does not change his mind, and bets $85. folds to PFR who calls, then folds to Hero who...?
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:28 AM   #2732
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by THEOSU View Post
2/5 nl, three orbits in or so. initial impression is that table is of slightly below average quality of player. most solid player is on my left. three on my right (PFR in this hand) has been mildly unpredictable in the hands i've seen.

hero 500, table covers.

three limpers to MP who raises to 20. one call, i call on button with 85ss, bb calls, all limpers call. we see the flop seven ways.

flop: 589 rainbow, not the 9 of spades.

BB checks. As UTG reaches for chips, the PFR puts out two green chips. dealer informs PFR that it is not on him, UTG has yet to act. UTG does not change his mind, and bets $85. folds to PFR who calls, then folds to Hero who...?
Ugggh. UTG is super strong here. Nevermind he wanted to lead into 6 players after he limp/called, he's not paying MP any mind. Call and re-evaluate. However, I wouldn't fault you for a fold either.
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Old 03-20-2015, 03:58 PM   #2733
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by THEOSU View Post
2/5 nl, three orbits in or so. initial impression is that table is of slightly below average quality of player. most solid player is on my left. three on my right (PFR in this hand) has been mildly unpredictable in the hands i've seen.

hero 500, table covers.

three limpers to MP who raises to 20. one call, i call on button with 85ss, bb calls, all limpers call. we see the flop seven ways.

flop: 589 rainbow, not the 9 of spades.

BB checks. As UTG reaches for chips, the PFR puts out two green chips. dealer informs PFR that it is not on him, UTG has yet to act. UTG does not change his mind, and bets $85. folds to PFR who calls, then folds to Hero who...?
fold pre
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Old 03-20-2015, 11:52 PM   #2734
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

raises.
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Old 03-25-2015, 04:47 PM   #2735
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Hey guys.
Would appreciate some feedback made a weird play today. Will try to be super brief.

Me and V are both deep with 700 at 200nl. We have played a bunch of small pots and he check-calls and check folds to me often. Never any real aggression. He is pretty solid, not making huge mistakes like the other players. I am looking to stay out of his way and he mostly is staying out of mine. Then this happened.

I have AA. 3-handed. Board= 8TJ rainbow. I c-bet 15 he raises to 50. I muck pretty quickly feeling fine about it. I was oop btw. Thought process is we are so deep, i dont want to play for stacks, he hasn't been aggressive so far, he didn't 3-bet pre...

is anyone okay with this or are you guys all throwing up?
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Old 03-25-2015, 04:50 PM   #2736
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

I'm not folding just yet but I'm treading very carefully as half the deck sucks for us. Even an ace on the turn may not be a good card. I think the turn is a x/f.
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Old 03-25-2015, 05:19 PM   #2737
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Cool giving up since he has been so passive. Gonna he extremely hard to play oop rest of way. We are folding best quite often
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:25 PM   #2738
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by progress View Post
Hey guys.
Would appreciate some feedback made a weird play today. Will try to be super brief.

Me and V are both deep with 700 at 200nl. We have played a bunch of small pots and he check-calls and check folds to me often. Never any real aggression. He is pretty solid, not making huge mistakes like the other players. I am looking to stay out of his way and he mostly is staying out of mine. Then this happened.

I have AA. 3-handed. Board= 8TJ rainbow. I c-bet 15 he raises to 50. I muck pretty quickly feeling fine about it. I was oop btw. Thought process is we are so deep, i dont want to play for stacks, he hasn't been aggressive so far, he didn't 3-bet pre...

is anyone okay with this or are you guys all throwing up?
I'm probably puking a little, but yeah it's a fold. You're deep, OOP, with a hand that's all of a sudden really marginal, and most of the deck sucks for you. Folding now and just losing your cbet is probably best.
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Old 03-26-2015, 03:19 PM   #2739
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Think I call this and check/eval the turn. His bet size will tell you how scared he is of the draws with a set, vs. a pair+draw.

The problem is that some players raise AJ/QQ here "to see where they're at".
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Old 03-27-2015, 01:26 AM   #2740
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Quick sanity check...

Hero- 30s WG, tight image. Stack~260
Villain- 30s WG, laggy, hoodie, sunglasses, earphones. Never really got involved in hand with him. Didn't showdown too much. Stack~1000

V(UTG) limps, CO limps, Hero (button) 10c10s raise to $8. Blinds fold, V calls, rest fold.
^^^ actually wanted it raised to $12, there was a white chip on bottom, thought it was red. My fault for not announcing.^^^ oh well on to flop

Pot:$21
Flop: 3s-5h-8c
V checks, I bet $25, V calls.

Pot:~$70
Turn: 6h
V checks,
Hero?

he can't really have higher pockets, wouldve raise pre. what can you really range him on? Suited A8-A5? Lower pocket pair? Really going to call that Somewhat overbet? If a set, he would've bet turn?
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Old 03-27-2015, 02:10 AM   #2741
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

It is 1/2nl, $300max. Kinda implied but just in case.
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Old 03-27-2015, 02:16 AM   #2742
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

progress,

OOP it's a good fold. I might check that flop and try like hell to get a cheap showdown, and if that doesn't happen just throw it away.

choppot,

pretty clear bet/fold.
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Old 03-27-2015, 03:58 AM   #2743
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

1/3 300eff.

Hero BB 42o
5 limpers pre flop

J 8 4 all clubs. Gets cheked around.

TURN J 8 4 Jx checks to villain on BTN. He is very bad and has bet sizing tells. He bets 15. This is a naked club draw almost always. This is never a J cause no bet flop.

Hero raise to 45, villain calls.

River J 8 4 J 7 no flush. Villain stares me down and looks at his and mine chips. Never done this before but feels like hit.

My question is this is a shove or at least a huge bet every time tight?
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Old 03-27-2015, 06:07 AM   #2744
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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choppot,

pretty clear bet/fold.
Against a hoodie/glasses villain that's been described as "laggy"? I would say that it's either a bet/call or check back, because a lot of hands in his range just picked up a fairly good amount of equity, and he could semibluff plenty of them. Given that our own hand is somewhat marginal here (not really a 3-street hand), I would check back and try to induce a river bluff. I don't expect him to have us beat that often, but I also don't expect to be paid off 3 streets with many worse hands.
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Old 03-27-2015, 01:04 PM   #2745
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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Originally Posted by MK7749 View Post
1/3 300eff.

Hero BB 42o
5 limpers pre flop

J 8 4 all clubs. Gets cheked around.

TURN J 8 4 Jx checks to villain on BTN. He is very bad and has bet sizing tells. He bets 15. This is a naked club draw almost always. This is never a J cause no bet flop.

Hero raise to 45, villain calls.

River J 8 4 J 7 no flush. Villain stares me down and looks at his and mine chips. Never done this before but feels like hit.

My question is this is a shove or at least a huge bet every time tight?
Preflop obvious.

I would also typically check/fold the flop. We're OOP and have no idea what is potentially happening with a sucky hand.

I would probably donk the turn. No one showed any interest in the flop at all. It's possible our hand is good and we charge the draws. We could even bluff a better pair out of the pot (Jx or flush is not an unreasonable hand for us to show up with).

I don't hate the raise now that we've seen the turn action. I agree that Button rarely shows up with a J here. But I'm guessing he might also bet the flop if he had the naked club draw, so I'm not always convinced it's a draw.

I don't really understand our river thinking. Are we thinking Villain completed his OESD? The obvious flush draw missed. Are we thinking Villain called the turn with like a small (but bigger) pair + club draw? The pot is only ~$100 so there is no way I'm considering shoving ~$250 into it. We have showdown value against busted draws. I'm check/evaluating depending on his bluffing tendencies.

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 03-27-2015, 01:21 PM   #2746
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

check/fold turn. i like winning orphan pots, but i like winning them cheaply.
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Old 03-27-2015, 04:04 PM   #2747
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

GG- I felt I had to fold out all his made small pair hands. A shove or a bet to say 150 I feel he folds everything every tim. I don't think I got really good SDV here since he may not have a J here he can have 8x or even 4x with a club.
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Old 03-27-2015, 04:30 PM   #2748
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

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GG- I felt I had to fold out all his made small pair hands. A shove or a bet to say 150 I feel he folds everything every tim. I don't think I got really good SDV here since he may not have a J here he can have 8x or even 4x with a club.
I think pretty much the only reasonable hand that we're targeting is 8x with big club, and even those hands mighta bet the flop. Is he really going to call a turn check/raise with a smallish pair that doesn't have a big club to go with it? I think we have more a bluffcatcher against busted draws at this point, no?

GcluelessNLnoobG
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Old 03-27-2015, 04:34 PM   #2749
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

^^^

To keep this short yea I actually agree with everything you wrote. I felt he would also bet larger with a bigger piece, he is very easy to play against player.

I so I just checked and checked and he showed 7c 3. Thinking about this hand after just trying to see if I should be betting here more then checkin.
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Old 03-27-2015, 04:46 PM   #2750
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Re: Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

Ha, I was wondering if the 7 hit him. It actually does complete the T9 OESD and we're never getting him off that I don't think. Lol at him calling with a 7c flush draw, so I guess that does mean he can easily have 66c/etc. and we can fold those hands out. My guess was that he was going to show up with Ac7x.

GIthinktheriverisfine,imoG
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