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Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

01-13-2015 , 11:15 AM
V is asian female, opens 25% hands pre for 7-10x, cbets close to 100%, double barrels frequently, goes into check-call mode oop if played back at, tight 3b range.

ES 600bb (game got super deep, there are four of us 500bb+), Hero calls JJ mp after V opens utg 7.5x, 5 callers. Flop (38.5bb) Js9d5d, V cbets 12.5bb, Hero raises to 40bb, folds to V quickly calls. Turn (118.5bb) 3c V c/c Hero's 82.5bb. River (283.5bb) 7s V leads for 100bb...
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01-13-2015 , 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scelsi
V is asian female, opens 25% hands pre for 7-10x, cbets close to 100%, double barrels frequently, goes into check-call mode oop if played back at, tight 3b range.

ES 600bb (game got super deep, there are four of us 500bb+), Hero calls JJ mp after V opens utg 7.5x, 5 callers. Flop (38.5bb) Js9d5d, V cbets 12.5bb, Hero raises to 40bb, folds to V quickly calls. Turn (118.5bb) 3c V c/c Hero's 82.5bb. River (283.5bb) 7s V leads for 100bb...
Easy allin? We beat everything but one OE combo and one gutter combo, can get called by almost all sets and two pairs that are way more likely than 86 specifically.... I can't see any decision other than playing for it all without some live reads.
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01-14-2015 , 08:28 PM
$1/$3 NL.

Eff. stacks about $500 with relevant opponent.

V1: German, Late 20s. Played PLO with him once. He had $1,500 in front of him and said he was still stuck ($1/$2 PLO). Had only been at the table about 30 minutes and was more interested in calculating bad beat odds on his phone.

V2 Asian male. Early 30s. Hadn't seen much from him

V3: Black male. Probably about 35. Hadn't been involved in any hands yet.

V1 raises to $10 from UTG. V2 calls from UTG+1.

I am next to act with two red Queens. I make it $45. V3 cold calls. He only has about $100-$120 more after calling. V1 and V2 call.

Flop 10 9 2, all diamonds. I have the Qd.

V1 checks and looks disinterested. V2 bets $100.

I call. V3 folds. V1 folds.

Turn is an offsuit 4.

V2 bets $150, leaving less than $200 behind.

Are folding, calling or shoving?
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01-14-2015 , 09:35 PM
Fold because of V3. If it was a ménage a trois with the first 2 villains then I'd consider other options. But V2 might know that he has to call V3 when leading the flop like that.
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01-14-2015 , 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homerdash
Fold because of V3. If it was a ménage a trois with the first 2 villains then I'd consider other options. But V2 might know that he has to call V3 when leading the flop like that.
so you fold flop?
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01-14-2015 , 11:52 PM
I call and I call most rivers, although I would really be trying to pick up tells.
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01-15-2015 , 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly
so you fold flop?

Yes. Chances are, if you are playing 1/3, $100 is a "lot" of money to you, thus I think the range is all stuff we're crushed by.

AdTx is not a lot of combinations.
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01-15-2015 , 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly
$1/$3 NL.

Eff. stacks about $500 with relevant opponent.

V1: German, Late 20s. Played PLO with him once. He had $1,500 in front of him and said he was still stuck ($1/$2 PLO). Had only been at the table about 30 minutes and was more interested in calculating bad beat odds on his phone.

V2 Asian male. Early 30s. Hadn't seen much from him

V3: Black male. Probably about 35. Hadn't been involved in any hands yet.

V1 raises to $10 from UTG. V2 calls from UTG+1.

I am next to act with two red Queens. I make it $45. V3 cold calls. He only has about $100-$120 more after calling. V1 and V2 call.

Flop 10 9 2, all diamonds. I have the Qd.

V1 checks and looks disinterested. V2 bets $100.

I call. V3 folds. V1 folds.

Turn is an offsuit 4.

V2 bets $150, leaving less than $200 behind.

Are folding, calling or shoving?
I find preflop very difficult.

When I 3bet hands with my tightish image, I'm probably turning my hand fairly face upish. And depending on stacks, I'm typically also creating a very small SPR where it will be very difficult to fold an overpair. But unless we raise a big amount, we'll also be offering our opponent good setmining odds. In this case, we created a SPR 2.5 pot (lol, it wouldn't be totally unreasonable for stacks to go in on literally just one postflop street) and yet at the same time 3 opponents (at least the deeper ones) got implied odds of 15+.

So, if I were to 3bet, I'd probably like to go to $85. This offers 8x implied odds, and opponents simply can't be profitable playing speculative hands against us even if our hand is face up. But there's two problems with that. First, it seems unlikely that we're going to get any action on a raise that big; if there were more callers of the small bet it's possible a big raise would work because it's more reasonable, looks squeezy, and even if it does just take down the pot at least the pot it takes down is more worth winning. And second, it's also possible that we run into a bigger hand, and I'm not comfortable playing for 167bb stacks with QQ.

Oh, and before "3bet more" is offered as solution, I'm assuming Chippy doesn't exactly have a spewy 3bet image, and he just had his 3bet called in lol 3 places. 3betting light at these stakes is not the answer, imo.

So, with all that said, I would overcall preflop (it's the lesser of two evils, imo). It's not a great spot, as it will probably invite a couple others into the pot. But it will keep the SPR higher so that we have more room to play postflop, and hopefully our position will help us figure out what to do, plus we can just fold for cheap on some bad flops/action. Plus if some gambooley / squeezy guy attempts to make a move we'll have a counter punch waiting.

As played, I have no idea what to do postflop. SPR is lol 2.5, we're 4ways, we could be ahead, we could be behind but drawing, we could be drawing dead, and all the while everyone pretty much knows what we have and got 15x implied odds to stack us. It's a gross spot. I probably make up my mind on the flop whether I'm in (shove) or out (fold).

Gmy2centsG
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01-15-2015 , 05:41 PM
1/2 NL 2 ak hands

V is middle aged guy with a beer, can't remember if his second or not. He's been raising a lot of hands, playing a few per orbit for 1hr. He's smiling, very aggressive and seems to want action. Made it 200 pre last orbit with 88 against me and a shortstack after we both called 20.

A: 2 folds to him (~325) and he makes it his standard 12, I (185) 3bet AK to 30 and folds around to his call. Flop (63) KJ2r he bets 60. I go all in and he folds instantly.

A Hand: Should I have 3bet more? Just called flop?

2 hands later he doubles up a very tight old guy with AK on AJ2 board and he gets JJ very slowly turned over on him. He goes all in with 33 bucks next hand and I sense he is racking off. I limp 2 bucks with AK utg and 2 more limpers and he does it again. I call and a short stack goes all in for 15 more which is 50 and I play a hand with both of them ak v kq v a9.

B Hand: Should I have just raised pre normally or would it scare him off his presumed all in?
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01-15-2015 , 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShermanTank
1/2 NL 2 ak hands

V is middle aged guy with a beer, can't remember if his second or not. He's been raising a lot of hands, playing a few per orbit for 1hr. He's smiling, very aggressive and seems to want action. Made it 200 pre last orbit with 88 against me and a shortstack after we both called 20.

A: 2 folds to him (~325) and he makes it his standard 12, I (185) 3bet AK to 30 and folds around to his call. Flop (63) KJ2r he bets 60. I go all in and he folds instantly.

A Hand: Should I have 3bet more? Just called flop?

2 hands later he doubles up a very tight old guy with AK on AJ2 board and he gets JJ very slowly turned over on him. He goes all in with 33 bucks next hand and I sense he is racking off. I limp 2 bucks with AK utg and 2 more limpers and he does it again. I call and a short stack goes all in for 15 more which is 50 and I play a hand with both of them ak v kq v a9.

B Hand: Should I have just raised pre normally or would it scare him off his presumed all in?
Hand A: Make it $40 pre and let him barrel. Why raise? He folds worse and will only call our shove with better.

Hand B: Looks good, we crush his range and and we thank god the other shorty is not a good player.
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01-15-2015 , 06:31 PM
Hand A : I'm prob going to 3b to 35 myself. Just being nitpicky. On flop, I'm just calling and calling/shipping every turn. We stack his Kx either way. Let him be aggressive with the rest of his nonsense rather than dropping the hammer on him.

Hand B : I would like to know the other limper's stack size. I'm fine with what you did here, you can keep the limpers' dominated hands in this way. If you're fairly certain the guy will rack off a ton anyways (likely given he's an action player), I'd rather open to ~8-10 and then reship over his shove to iso/create more dead money (and pot commit) people that flat your raise. This part will come down to what type of players & stacks are between you and Villain.
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01-15-2015 , 06:44 PM
Thanks, on A I realize a call is much better idea.

B, limper 1 MP 50$, limper 2 HJack (another super tight old guy) 275~. V on BB, me UTG
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01-24-2015 , 05:04 PM
Not sure if I'm supposed to stack off here hoping for a chop or "hero" fold

2/5

2 limps in ep i have ks10s utg+3 and limp, another limp by villain of the hand in hj, co ($500ish, midaged white, makes weak raises sometimes with spec hands) makes it $20, we all call. Flop is 6d7c9h, everyone checks. Turn is 8h checks to me i bet $75, folds to villain who makes it $425 leaving around $75 behind him

Villain is midaged asian, hasn't played many hands over a few orbits of sitting down within 30 mins, nothing noteworthy other than he plays somewhat loose pre like 99% of live regs
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01-24-2015 , 07:09 PM
The raise is ginormous. I let it go.
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01-25-2015 , 05:51 AM
2/3 NL
Effective stacks $300.

V - very bad player, donator for the most part. Will open wide and make loose calls but in single-raised pots or 3-bet pots by others. I can't recall him 3-betting ever.

Hero - Tight, regular winning aggressive image.

Hero raises to $12 in MP, w KK. V 3-bets to $50 in LP. Alarm bells are going off in my head because even though he is a regular loser in this game, I don't recall ever seeing him 3-bet and especially since he's 3-betting ME, when he knows I beat the game pretty regularly. I decide to flat to keep his narrow range as wide as possible. My range for him is AA, KK, with a hopeful AK and QQ added in. Honestly not sure how realistic AK and QQ are.

Can I really give a bad, loose player credit for only AA here? I am by no means a nit. He is a textbook V you win lots of money from but it's always when he's calling too loose and making bad decisions post flop.

Flop ($100) - T85r
H checks, V bets $90. Hero?

Hero thinks giving V credit for ONLY AA would be a big mistake if I'm wrong so I shove and V calls w AA and hero wonders if I should've listened to that feeling I had.

Last edited by eyurus; 01-25-2015 at 05:59 AM.
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01-26-2015 , 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyurus
2/3 NL
Effective stacks $300.

V - very bad player, donator for the most part. Will open wide and make loose calls but in single-raised pots or 3-bet pots by others. I can't recall him 3-betting ever.

Hero - Tight, regular winning aggressive image.

Hero raises to $12 in MP, w KK. V 3-bets to $50 in LP. Alarm bells are going off in my head because even though he is a regular loser in this game, I don't recall ever seeing him 3-bet and especially since he's 3-betting ME, when he knows I beat the game pretty regularly. I decide to flat to keep his narrow range as wide as possible. My range for him is AA, KK, with a hopeful AK and QQ added in. Honestly not sure how realistic AK and QQ are.

Can I really give a bad, loose player credit for only AA here? I am by no means a nit. He is a textbook V you win lots of money from but it's always when he's calling too loose and making bad decisions post flop.

Flop ($100) - T85r
H checks, V bets $90. Hero?

Hero thinks giving V credit for ONLY AA would be a big mistake if I'm wrong so I shove and V calls w AA and hero wonders if I should've listened to that feeling I had.
Tough spot. I have this mantra I keep repeating to myself: "they are not playing back at me". He's not playing back at you. He's simply seen a regular winner (whom I assume he thinks is tight) open in MP (albeit a small raise), and then he's made a biggish 3bet (when he never 3bets). I don't think it's unrealistic to narrow his range drastically.

I think I would play the hand the same way and nit fold the flop. Then maybe try to get him to show his hand and see if you can clarify your read, something like "you're lucky I didn't hit an A/K, I woulda stacked you" (he might proudly show his AA to show you what bad shape he had you in).

Yesterday I did something I can't recall hardly ever doing: folding QQ to a single 3bet. I have a nit image and haven't done anything out of line. Villian also hasn't gotten out-of-line, and seems tightish. We have no history with each other prior to this session (first time playing together?), and the only hand of note in this session he opens QQ in EP, gets some callers, I limp/reraise AK, he tank/calls, HU to Axx flop with just a PSB left, and I (rightly or wrongly) check both flop and turn to try to setup a payoff / induce weird bet, but he doesn't fall for it, and I kinda feel sick when a Q falls on the river but I shove anyways; he correctly states that we both knew exactly where we were in the hand and that checking for him to his 2 outer wasn't exactly a mistake. Anyhoooooooo, tighty me opens to $15 UTG at a tightish table (I'm expecting it HU if anyone calls). He's in HJ and 3bets to $45 with $200 stack. It's his first 3bet of the night. I doubt he's ever expecting me to fold. Is he happy playing for $200 with AK/JJ- versus me? I decided no, and folded. We talked about it later and he told me had KK, although I can never be completely sure.

GtoughspotsG
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01-26-2015 , 01:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Tough spot. I have this mantra I keep repeating to myself: "they are not playing back at me". He's not playing back at you. He's simply seen a regular winner (whom I assume he thinks is tight) open in MP (albeit a small raise), and then he's made a biggish 3bet (when he never 3bets). I don't think it's unrealistic to narrow his range drastically.

I think I would play the hand the same way and nit fold the flop. Then maybe try to get him to show his hand and see if you can clarify your read, something like "you're lucky I didn't hit an A/K, I woulda stacked you" (he might proudly show his AA to show you what bad shape he had you in).

Yesterday I did something I can't recall hardly ever doing: folding QQ to a single 3bet. I have a nit image and haven't done anything out of line. Villian also hasn't gotten out-of-line, and seems tightish. We have no history with each other prior to this session (first time playing together?), and the only hand of note in this session he opens QQ in EP, gets some callers, I limp/reraise AK, he tank/calls, HU to Axx flop with just a PSB left, and I (rightly or wrongly) check both flop and turn to try to setup a payoff / induce weird bet, but he doesn't fall for it, and I kinda feel sick when a Q falls on the river but I shove anyways; he correctly states that we both knew exactly where we were in the hand and that checking for him to his 2 outer wasn't exactly a mistake. Anyhoooooooo, tighty me opens to $15 UTG at a tightish table (I'm expecting it HU if anyone calls). He's in HJ and 3bets to $45 with $200 stack. It's his first 3bet of the night. I doubt he's ever expecting me to fold. Is he happy playing for $200 with AK/JJ- versus me? I decided no, and folded. We talked about it later and he told me had KK, although I can never be completely sure.

GtoughspotsG
Sucks about the 2 outer. For the second hand, I'd tend to believe him. That IS a tight game, though. Jeez.

After my hand, it reminded me of a hand DGI posted recently where he got an icky feeling when he got 3-bet w a big hand vs. a whale and dumped the hand. He listened to his "spidey sense" and I didn't. Big lesson for me there, to listen to that voice (not to always fold KK there, obv). I always see the "you have to GII w KK for 100BB" threads" but I just knew something didn't feel right given V and our history. Players at the table said it was a "cooler" but I immediately knew I made a mistake. I think I've taken enough money off of V by now that he is going to tread carefully vs. me. Ironically, if he opened, I 3-bet, he flats and we got it in on the flop, I'd feel like I 100% played it fine.
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01-26-2015 , 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyurus
After my hand, it reminded me of a hand DGI posted recently where he got an icky feeling when he got 3-bet w a big hand vs. a whale and dumped the hand. He listened to his "spidey sense" and I didn't. Big lesson for me there, to listen to that voice (not to always fold KK there, obv). I always see the "you have to GII w KK for 100BB" threads" but I just knew something didn't feel right given V and our history. Players at the table said it was a "cooler" but I immediately knew I made a mistake. I think I've taken enough money off of V by now that he is going to tread carefully vs. me. Ironically, if he opened, I 3-bet, he flats and we got it in on the flop, I'd feel like I 100% played it fine.
Ya, if you woulda 3bet with these stacks and he flats then easy stack off postflop as his range should be much wider.

Did you stack off on the flop? I mean, I can't really blame you on this flop; obviously if it's a Q/J flop then we'd have a lot easier decision. Sometimes poker is gross.

GIalsopostalotbetterthanIplayG
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01-26-2015 , 02:38 PM
Yeah. I check-shoved over his $90 c-bet telling myself he is a fish so I can't give him credit for ONLY AA, QQ is possible too. In reality, I don't "think" he 3-bets me w QQ, almost 100% sure he doesn't 3-bet me w JJ. AK he miiiiiight 3-bet with but I don't think he c-bets $90 with that. Oh well, definitely not the worst hand I've played but didn't like that I was tuned in very well and justified a shove in my head anyway.
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01-26-2015 , 02:43 PM
In the end you ran KK into AA with 100bb stacks. I wouldn't beat yourself up about it.

GpokergodslaughingatusG
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01-27-2015 , 07:46 AM
Hero is relatively new to the table.

$1/$3 NL.

Villain is unknown early 30s AA.

Hero raises in HJ to $15 with A10 suited over a couple of limpers. Gets 11 callers. (Seriously 5 callers).
Pot: $90ish

Flop A22 two clubs. Checks to hero who bets $45.

Villain calls. Turn is a 3. Villain bets $50. Hero calls.

River Q. Villain bets $100.

Call or fold?
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01-27-2015 , 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly
Hero is relatively new to the table.

$1/$3 NL.

Villain is unknown early 30s AA.

Hero raises in HJ to $15 with A10 suited over a couple of limpers. Gets 11 callers. (Seriously 5 callers).
Pot: $90ish

Flop A22 two clubs. Checks to hero who bets $45.

Villain calls. Turn is a 3. Villain bets $50. Hero calls.

River Q. Villain bets $100.

Call or fold?
Hmm. Did he limp-call or call from the blinds? Your kicker doesn't play now so did he limp-call w AQ+? That would be unusual. 45cc? Makes sense. 2x? Usually A2 but you have a blocker so unlikely, maybe 32. 33 that binked? Small chance of a flush draw that set his own price on turn and fired when he missed. Gotta figure if we do call, unless he's capable of bluffing two streets with a draw (and I've seen very few players that would bet $100 on a busted draw), so at best we are chopping. I probably let it go vs. 5 players without more info. Later in the session it could be a call based on what I've seen. Your hand looks pretty close to what it is and he's still firing. Getting 4:1 makes it tempting but given that we are rarely winning the pot outright (chopping when we are correct and losing another $100 when are wrong), I let it go and keep an eye on his play.
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01-27-2015 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbelieveinChipKelly
Hero is relatively new to the table.

$1/$3 NL.

Villain is unknown early 30s AA.

Hero raises in HJ to $15 with A10 suited over a couple of limpers. Gets 11 callers. (Seriously 5 callers).
Pot: $90ish

Flop A22 two clubs. Checks to hero who bets $45.

Villain calls. Turn is a 3. Villain bets $50. Hero calls.

River Q. Villain bets $100.

Call or fold?
You know how I feel about preflop Chippy. Either overlimp or raise an amount that thins the field; anything in between (i.e. this result) is far worse than either of those options, but you and I might disagree on this.

I probably bet smaller on the flop. Also, with a sucky preflop result like this, I actually sometimes just attempt to let the flop check thru and go from there.

What are stacks on the turn? Unless they are huge, I'm guessing calling any bet on the turn leaves us with < PSB for the river? We really have to think about whether we are getting committed here. Did Villain call the flop with a lot of others to act after him, or was he the last to call? The earlier he calls, the more I might just sigh fold the turn. He's seen the preflop raiser bet into eleventeen players on the flop, and now he's now testing the water with his A7 or betting his draw?

As played, I fold the river.

FWIW, AT is such a junky hand to want to play a big pot with just TP. Which is why I either overlimp the suited variety (to play a high SPR pot for it's flush/straight potential) or raise to narrow the field (where hopefully I can just cbet air on the flop HU to win some dead money or otherwise pot control TP).

ETA: Also didn't realize our kicker doesn't even play now. Calling for a chop almost always seems wrong to me.

GimoG
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01-29-2015 , 01:08 AM
Fold. If he has an ace less than AQ on this river, he's going to check/call. Since we know 99% he's not bluffing, would he really bet $100 into the PF raiser here with AJ? Ax suited? He just always has either AK (certainly not an auto 3-bet PF at these stakes), AQ, A3s, or 2x suited. If he played a lesser ace this way and got you off the chop, then God bless him, he deserves it. (By the way, what does "AA" mean when you say "unknown early 30s AA?)
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01-30-2015 , 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyurus
Hmm. Did he limp-call or call from the blinds? Your kicker doesn't play now so did he limp-call w AQ+? That would be unusual. 45cc? Makes sense. 2x? Usually A2 but you have a blocker so unlikely, maybe 32. 33 that binked? Small chance of a flush draw that set his own price on turn and fired when he missed. Gotta figure if we do call, unless he's capable of bluffing two streets with a draw (and I've seen very few players that would bet $100 on a busted draw), so at best we are chopping. I probably let it go vs. 5 players without more info. Later in the session it could be a call based on what I've seen. Your hand looks pretty close to what it is and he's still firing. Getting 4:1 makes it tempting but given that we are rarely winning the pot outright (chopping when we are correct and losing another $100 when are wrong), I let it go and keep an eye on his play.
He limp called.

Quote:
Originally Posted by machi5
Fold. If he has an ace less than AQ on this river, he's going to check/call. Since we know 99% he's not bluffing, would he really bet $100 into the PF raiser here with AJ? Ax suited? He just always has either AK (certainly not an auto 3-bet PF at these stakes), AQ, A3s, or 2x suited. If he played a lesser ace this way and got you off the chop, then God bless him, he deserves it. (By the way, what does "AA" mean when you say "unknown early 30s AA?)
African-American.

He had 46o for air but I folded.
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