making it $20 pre given a limper and lack of absolute position seems unoptimized

I don't think the difference in hourly rate that the image garners you is worth punting off $100 at 1/3 or $300 at 2/5 or whatever.

I will sometimes be really slag right away if I'm sat in a nitty game, and then tighten up after a few orbits. But I'm not straight punting.

Since I can’t find the post you were replying to, i’ll Just reply to yours.

Rake. Stacks. If a game is dead, I believe you can take control and revive it and in doing so throw a few players off there game. I think I have seen increasingly over the years though that some players will just leave as the action scares them away especially if you start accumulating chips.

There has to be a few big stacks on the table to go after though. You simply can’t beat rake/tips running a wide opening range when the stacks aren’t there.

To answer the question specifically...it’s a matter of how long your spewy image will last in their minds after you have switched gears to slow down. Here’s my most educated answer and you all may torch me for this: It depends on what your physical appearance is.

I truly believe if Dennis Rodman and bill gates both played exactly the same, then in low stakes poker...Dennis makes waaaayyy more money. I mean I just wanna give Rodman some money right now because I know he’ll do something super funky with it and i’ll Find that entertaining!

I wanted some opinions on something I realized yesterday when reading through some threads. So, there were a few hands in which hero 3 bets pre. And in those hands it just so happened that the 3 bet opens up hero to exploitation from another v (not the original raiser). I was sorta hung up on this because most everyone agreed that we should just play unconcerned about people playing “at” us in 1-3 especially.

But I do think that’s a leak and especially since I don’t believe villains are always calculating for correct implied odds...we may as well scale down the sizing of our 3 bets? With the exception of our monster hands.

Does anyone agree with me on this? It’s a matter of savings.

At 1/3, value >>>> savings. Very few people fold after putting money in pre, so the size of your raise or 3-bet doesn't shrink their range much, and you getting the most money in with a range advantage is the name of the game.

Also agree that image as a fun person is far more value than image as spewy when you first sat down. And it's cheaper.

I do think appearance matters, yeah.

I also agree with the consensus that unknowns should be treated as players who won't play "at" us.

I really don't like the flop c-bet. Yes, the flop is somewhat dry (although someone holding T9 wouldn't think so) and we have small showdown value. But it is a multiway pot, we are out of position, and we would be firing a second barrel with only a few turn cards. I think we should check here, and fold if BTN takes a stab.

As played on flop, I would certainly fire again on this turn if one of the two villains had dropped out, but with them both here this is a good check.

On the river, a raise may well be good here. MAWG's stab is small enough to be some kind of blocker bet, such as from AX, maybe even AT or A8. I would not raise large, maybe something on the order of $50 to $100, folding to a reraise from BTN.

I think the preflop sizing is just fine, by the way.

I’ll let my worries rest then regarding the 3 bet sizing.

Because the population at 1-3 plays so terribly, terribly badly, we are focused on making money, not playing perfectly, and so essentially every time we play a hand we open ourselves to exploitation. Preventing this leave lots of money on the table. Which is a higher priority, chasing the goobers' money, or protecting yourself from the guy who thinks that getting money from the good players is more profitable than chasing the goobers?

Yes, I agree. And in reality I don’t think I sweat what I was or had developed a worry about. I guess I had saw a pattern reading these threads and wanted to touch on it.

I don't play nosebleeds but just cuz it's G.

Seat change, ldo (semi-pro non-short to our immediate left, if this isn't the worse seat at the table then we're sitting at a really bad table).

Fine with preflop.

Fine with flop. Folding out Ax is a huge coup 3ways.

Any thought to double barrelling the turn? I'd consider it, especially if my shirt is tucked in, although obviously a little difficult with 2 people still in (but that also makes it look super strong).

I think I'm either/or on the river. Flatting here is almost a Limit play, where someone donks the river and we've got someone behind us and we're not exactly sure how good our hand is, we can flat and get paid off by the guy behind us without risking opening up the action. Obviously not quite as applicable to No Limit but kinda sorta and not a bad place for it. Depends a lot on how often the donker is going to pay off a raise with worse / how often guy behind us can overcall.

If I raise and I'm reraised I fold because 3bets on the river are the stone cold nuts 99% / misread hand 1%.

Gdoesn'tplaynosebleedsG

lol @ calling $2/5 nosebleeds

Actually, I had the god-seat on Mr. Spewy and had a station one seat to the right of him, so it was a great seat. Being OOP to a semi-pro wasn't ideal, especially after I got 200+BBs deep, but it was worth it.

Sadly, in this particualr hand Mr. Spewy was on a smoke break and station actually folded pre in an unopened pot

Me seat strat always revolves around the best deep player at the table. We just can't be OOP to this guy ~every single hand we play, imo.

GcluelessseatstratnoobG

Sure we can - we can learn how to play OOP versus good players.

Switching seats at a table can be very bad for game flow. DUCY?

I will say after reading through some posts and commenting, discussing, etc. there is a significant amount of energy wasted on determining differences in assumptions. I mean who’s really to say exactly what’s up. Things are absolutely different depending on where your at in the world, etc.

Why learn to play better into the wind when you can simply play with the wind at your back?

As for changing seats, I'll simply leave it up to G whether this is acceptable in his environment or not (in mine seat changing / table changing is a non-issue and totally standard among the reg crowd). We don't have to seat jump to get immediate position on this guy, we can simply move across the table from him (to get a better eye on the TV). But definitely "when in Rome".

GcluelessseatstratnoobG

What if you can't get another seat? What if you're stuck in the seat you're in?

And what happens when the 'fun' players see what you're doing when moving seats? They peg you as serious and tighten up against you.

Moreover, if this game is anything like your game (loose pre) the supposed "tough $2/5" players aren't gonna be able to get super tricky when flops go 4-5 way.

If we're stuck in this seat then we do the best we can until we change that.

It sounds like G thinks this is a good seat and is intentionally staying here. I simply disagree that this is a good seat.

I'm sure everyone's environment and culture differs to some degrees, and so obviously we have to be aware of that when doing things like seat changing / table changing. But in my environment it is simply a total non-issue that it isn't even discussion-worthy; if it is in your environment, then that's different and do as the locals do.

As for "fun players", as I say, my seat changing revolves around not being OOP to good deep players, so I'm not even targetting the fun players with my seat changing (not that it would matter if I did / when I do).

GwheninRome,imoG

Back in the online days, the spreadsheets made it very clear. Having position on the fish >>>>> not letting good players have position on us. I mean, it's not even close. mpethy had a good post on that ITF once upon a time.

General ongoing theme across various topics of “focus the value of fish” in this forum.

I like it.

How often do you run into 'double draws' or 'same draws'? (Not sure what the word is yet.)

2/5
V1 - Older fish (Covers). Plays way too many hands and just tries to hit. Makes way too many calls and in general is terrible, but great for the table.

3 limpers and Hero ($600) limps in LP with 78.
Flop 1065 ($20)
V1 bets $20 and folds to hero who raises to $65. (Can't remember if V was a blind or limped.)
V shoves $550+
Hero?
I thought about it and just figured it was a high variance call. His shove was strange, but I just had too much of the flop. I call and he shows J2

I end up turning the 9d for a straight flush (and he stormed out on mega tilt for some reason), but how often do you run into outs becoming blockers? Anything I should do differently here?

A very similar thing happened later in the session when I check raised with J10cc on a 974cc board. Another guy reraised my check raise and it folds to me. I was getting 3:1 and closed the action so I called. He had A8cc and won with A high.

I wish...more often.

In fact, the very hand that led me to taking some time off from the felt (and coming here) was a spot in which I played a monster pot (for me) because I put the guy on a weaker draw. Yeahedidnthavethedraw.

Not sure if I was around for that thread, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

GmaybethisiswhyIdon'tplaynosebleedsG

So...a respected poster knows of empirical evidence collected by another former respected poster that refutes your theory and you want to "agree to disagree"? C'mon, GG. I think at this point we can give both Garick & mpethy the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Again, $2/5 is not nosebleeds. Stop describing it as such. Sure, there are adjustments that need to be made when moving up to red chip poker. But we're not talking about jumping from $1/3 to Bobby's Room.

Let me ask you - from whom do you expect to make more money on average (position notwithstanding)? A whale? Or a solid semi-pro?