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Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions Not Quite Threadworthy--Low Stress Strat Questions

07-25-2012 , 11:36 PM
Well, I played in that very room and if 2/5 is being spread, I can't see any decent regular playing 1/3.

Him playing 1/3, not paying attention at the table, and opening and showing K9s bring me to the conclusion that he's not 4-betting wide here.
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07-25-2012 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAOxEaglex
He's an obvious internet grinder raising 100% of buttons.

1. As an internet player, he is familiar with blind defense. His 4betting range may be wider because of this.

2. While it is true that we have no information on his 4betting range, we can infer from Bayesian probability that we are ahead of this range.

Your statement that villain is just some arrogant idiot also hints that you are also only playing on a simpler level instead of thoroughly thinking. I mean that as constructive criticism.



Again, we are crushing his opening range and we have the additional incentive of ending the hand quickly since we are OOP.

I don't think a fold to the 4bet is terrible since there is obviously money to be made at other spots at the table but I think 5betting is more EV and I'd shove. It's sort of a sick play and takes balls though.
We ARE crushing his opening range. But I disagree with your optimism with respect to how we fare against his 4betting range. The only usable information that we can go by is villain opened and folded to a 3bet once in the session. This doesn't necessarily paint a picture of a spewtard to me. Yes, he opens wide, but he appears to get his head straight when faced with a 3bet. Hero's perceived image should be tight (based on OP's description)

I'm a big fan of 3betting AQs oop, but mostly do it when there are a few limpers to a button raise. In this case, he opened from the button. Realizing that his range is pretty wide AND having the hand proceed HU is more than fine with me.

Villain doesn't appear to have a 3bet calling range. So, why waste a good hand like AQs to 3bet him with?
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07-26-2012 , 12:33 AM
Quote:
Villain doesn't appear to have a 3bet calling range. So, why waste a good hand like AQs to 3bet him with?
How comfortable are you playing AQs OOP against an aggressive player? Seems like we'll be c/f flop a LOT.

FWIW, one of the spots may have limped in here. He was l/f a lot, and I honestly don't remember, as he was short by then and a total non-factor.

BTW, V's T8s open was against said spot. V opened for $15, and c-bet K-high flop. Spot tank called, leaving $3 (not a typo) behind. Turn went c/c and spot led out for last $3 on river. V folded, saying "I have T high, I don't see how I'm ever good here" for $3 into a $65 pot. He re-checked his hand while tanking, and I can confirm that he had T-high.
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07-26-2012 , 12:42 AM
Oh, and for those interested in results on my last hand ITT (previous to the 4-bet one):

Spoiler:
Hero raises to $50. V tanks forever and finally calls. River is blank and V checks. Hero shoves and V tanks a few seconds and folds.
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07-26-2012 , 02:03 AM
At your typical 1/2 table with 4-6 limpers, is it super nitty to only complete the SB with A10o or should we almost always be raising this?
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07-26-2012 , 02:13 AM
Quick line check:

Hero: 500
V1: 200
V2: 900 (sat with 500, won a decent pot against a spewey fish by calling with top pair and a flush draw and rivered 2p)

PreFlop:

3 limps to btn (v2) who makes it 12
Hero calls with 88
v1 calls

Flop: 35$
822scs


I check here because I'm hoping the spade draw sticks around / raises this seemingly dry board
v1 bets 25, btn calls, hero calls

(bet and a call from 2 people who are almost drawing dead? I'll let them see a turn)

Turn 110$:
Qc


Hero checks
normally I'd bet 60 here, but v1 seems to think I checked and is already counting out chips to bet, so I let him
V1 bets 50, V2 calls, hero makes it 180 to play (about 15$ more than V1's stack)
It also seems like a good amount to give V2 the idea he might have odds to draw out on his flush and still get paid if he hits (130 into a 520$ pot)
V1 calls, V2 folds

River blanks
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07-26-2012 , 05:31 AM
CHLuke, I raise that pretty much 100% for value. I go whatever the standard open for the table is, plus a BB for each limper, plus one for being OOP.

Shadow, nh. I don't generally like slow playing, but this seems a good place for it.
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07-26-2012 , 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolhandLuke88
At your typical 1/2 table with 4-6 limpers, is it super nitty to only complete the SB with A10o or should we almost always be raising this?
depends on the table. i can't tell you how often i've done this and wound up up against AQ or AJ (and sometimes AK).
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07-26-2012 , 05:49 AM
True. If you have a V who never raises in the pot, I'd consider just completing, but since these V's often limp weak hands too, I'd prob still raise most of the time and just proceed with caution if that V calls. Completing and playing ATo OOP against a million Vs kinda sucks to me. Id rather fold it, unless we are 2p mining only, and I doubt we can make much on an AxT board.
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07-26-2012 , 10:57 AM
AQ vs. Reg on button:

I fold to the 4bet. I would have flatted the PFR also.

3Betting is definitely +EV because we get him to fold a 30% equity share when he holds A9 or KQ, or a 40% equity share when he holds KJ. But I think we make more money overall playing pots with hands we're dominating then blowing villains off of them.
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07-26-2012 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
How comfortable are you playing AQs OOP against an aggressive player? Seems like we'll be c/f flop a LOT.
I wouldn't be playing AQs to hit, IN THIS SPOT.(AQ is a great bluff catcher in certain situations too) But I would definitely get very creative post flop and try to rep a strong hand when I whiff, and vbet it when I hit. You can pretty much rep any hand on any given flop, mainly, due to your perceived image to villain, but also due to the fact that he's not stubborn or too persistent with his aggression (These are my interpretations from reading your OP)
Also we are super confident that our hand is crushing his range.

So why not 3bet pre? Because I'm not content with just getting him to fold. I think you can, at least, gain one street of value off of him. 3betting him pre will cause him to fold mostly
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07-26-2012 , 12:02 PM
V and Hero both have ~200 stacks
2 limps, CO raises to 10, folds to hero in the BB who calls, 1 other caller

Flop (32$)
AhKcQh, hero bets 25
1 food, Villain rises to 50
Hero thinks for a moment, and shoves

Ok line?
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07-26-2012 , 12:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowdodger
V and Hero both have ~200 stacks
2 limps, CO raises to 10, folds to hero in the BB who calls, 1 other caller

Flop (32$)
AhKcQh, hero bets 25
1 food, Villain rises to 50
Hero thinks for a moment, and shoves

Ok line?
Depends on what we were dealt I guess?
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07-26-2012 , 12:09 PM
Kind of depends on your holding, dontcha think?

Edit. Dang, ninja'd.

@endodoc, I see your point on the AQ hand. I generally prefer not to plan PF to turn my hand into a bluff, as I'm afraid I'll wimp out and won't pull the trigger, leaving me playing FoF with undefined ranges OOP, but I'm sure that's a leak.

Folded to the 4-bet, BTW.
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07-26-2012 , 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Strife
Depends on what we were dealt I guess?

Haha. Whoops. Posting on my phone. Hero had K9hh
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07-26-2012 , 12:15 PM
Call me a nit and I don't necessarily disagree, but I routinely fold aqo pre to most open raises. Im looked at as aggressive too. I 3bet In general more than I flat it.

And I feel good about mucking it oop, dont see myself losing $ w aq
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07-26-2012 , 01:48 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys
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07-27-2012 , 12:19 AM
What is the default play here for you guys -

First hand at a brand new 2/5 table, hero holds AKo
Stacks - $500

Middle eastern mid 30's guy limps UTG, never seen him play before
I raise from CO to $25, BB calls, UTG calls

Flop is K 5 6 rainbow
Both check, I bet $40
BB folds, UTG raises to $100 and I notice he shrugs and whispers something to player beside him, fwiw.

If you call what is your general plan for turn & river? Thanks...
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07-27-2012 , 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay28
What is the default play here for you guys -

First hand at a brand new 2/5 table, hero holds AKo
Stacks - $500

Middle eastern mid 30's guy limps UTG, never seen him play before
I raise from CO to $25, BB calls, UTG calls

Flop is K 5 6 rainbow
Both check, I bet $40
BB folds, UTG raises to $100 and I notice he shrugs and whispers something to player beside him, fwiw.

If you call what is your general plan for turn & river? Thanks...
oh man. tough spot. Default play this early in a session is to fold. I mean, board is as dry as the Sahara and it's the first hand. However, the middle eastern factor can sway me to a call (they love to raise to see where they're at OR just the joy of bluffing runs through their veins)
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07-28-2012 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by endodocdc
oh man. tough spot. Default play this early in a session is to fold. I mean, board is as dry as the Sahara and it's the first hand. However, the middle eastern factor can sway me to a call (they love to raise to see where they're at OR just the joy of bluffing runs through their veins)
We have position, it isn't a "full" check raise, theres 2 connectors on the board (OESD), and he's Middle Eastern. Why would default play be to fold? This isn't even a scary situation.

Call and see what the turn brings.

If a single 2.5x check/raise is all it takes to get you off TPTK, that is probably a leak.
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07-31-2012 , 03:06 PM
1/2 live. Friday evening, not the best table I've ever seen. Table is about half regs who know the dealers and each other and are pushing $100 between them over and over.

I mostly like my seat because I have position on the two worst players at the table and the player to my immediate left is an older nut-peddling type so it's like having two buttons per orbit.

I bought in for $200 and have run that up to ~$350 mostly in two hands against the aforementioned bad players. Hand #1 I raised with AK, flopped a king and got three streets of value against QQ. Hand #2 I raised with KK, flopped top set and won one opponent's entire $100 stack plus $25 from another opponent.

I'm an older player (42), but relatively inexperienced, awkward, and honestly on the weak-tight side. I'm comfortable playing against terrible opponents who make my decisions easy, but that's about it right now. I'm improving but also see how far I have to go.

The best player at the table is Villain, two seats to my left with about $600. He has been playing what seems to be the 2+2 consensus optimum LLSNL style - extracting maximum value from monster hands, but also entering and winning lots of small pots by applying turn and river pressure when it appears nobody else can have much.

Our only history together was in one hand where I limped 55, called his small raise preflop, and led out both flop and turn when I flopped middle set on a one-suit board. He got away on the turn.

On to the hand.

Villain ($600) raises to 11. He is confident playing OOP and this open could be any pair, any two broadway, any suited connector, perhaps suited aces or even suited kings. He does not raise more with his big hands.

Folds around to Hero ($350) holding AA in the SB.

Against any other player at this table I would have reraised to 25 and hoped for a call, but I'm afraid to play a big pot out of position against this opponent 175 BB deep. I don't know exactly what his calling range would be if I raise big, or what his 4bet range would be if I raise small.

I don't want to waste my aces but I also don't want to lay correct odds to set-mine. And being the less-confident player and out of position I feel like there's a high risk of being blown off the best hand after the flop.

Do I have y'all's permission to puss out and 3bet to $41 and be happy winning his $11? I promise to play the hand next time I get into this spot with $200 or less…

Last edited by weaselblob; 07-31-2012 at 03:07 PM. Reason: missing apostrophe
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08-01-2012 , 10:00 AM
I flopped a set of 8's on JT8 board, I believe villain's range is over pairs i'm OOP...
We are 100bb effective, I donked flop, he min raised to know where he's at...I clicked it back so that he can't fold now...basically committing him...
Like it or hate it?

So I donk 20$ in 25$, he made it 40$, I made it 72$...My image is kinda tight and a shove might get QQ to find a fold
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08-01-2012 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee
I flopped a set of 8's on JT8 board, I believe villain's range is over pairs i'm OOP...
We are 100bb effective, I donked flop, he min raised to know where he's at...I clicked it back so that he can't fold now...basically committing him...
Like it or hate it?

So I donk 20$ in 25$, he made it 40$, I made it 72$...My image is kinda tight and a shove might get QQ to find a fold
Any chance he has 99 with the action so far? If so, the minraise gives him (implied) odds to call and spike. If not, no worries.

Can you raise bigger without shoving, even though it leaves you a lol-stack behind? Many players don't notice what size you're leaving yourself until you say "all-in", then they get serious about folding.
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08-01-2012 , 11:29 AM
He only raised two hands the whole night...I saw him limp TT earlier so I took 99 out...I was positive he's raising to know where he's at

And he has no implied odds because I'm not putting money in if he hits...I think I can play it perfectly vs his range...I never tried donk/min clicking it back

Last edited by playertee; 08-01-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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08-01-2012 , 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by playertee
And he has no implied odds because I'm not putting money in if he hits...I think I can play it perfectly vs his range...I never tried donk/min clicking it back
I think it's fine - I'm just trying to find the maximum he will call.
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