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No 3/4 bet range pre when super deep? No 3/4 bet range pre when super deep?

11-13-2011 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesuerte
IMO, the discussion is still overly focused on the fact that stacks are deep. Of course this is something we should consider in all decision making but I think it is dangerous to overweight it. The simple fact is that there is still going to be an extremely large number of pots under 200BB and losing sight of extracting max value for fear of being exploitable is bad.

At an extreme example, say we only three bet AA. If our opponent is simply going to rep a hand that beats us on all boards, call down because we won't be beating us >20%ish of the time. If our opponent never puts more money in less than two pair then c/f all streets. In both cases the pre flop three bet is winning us money.. In a more realistic situation where the opponent does something in between, play post flop poker in a bigger pot with a huge equity advantage.

There was a thread, which became a challenge in the HUNL forum where they played deep with one guy always having aces and both players being aware of this fact. It ended up being pretty close.

In real life, even if we only ever three bet aces (which we won't) it would take our opponent a long time to be sure of that.

I'm really confident that in most LLSNL games that are deep, the optimal line for a lot of hands is similar to 100BB. For example I'd be 3 betting AKo and b/f three streets when I hit. Of course there are preflop strategy adjustments, but I feel people get things out of proportion.

The real reason for not wanting to be three bet is that we'll make the pot big then get outplayed. Focus on not getting out played, rather than keeping the pot small with a huge equity edge.
Good post with points well taken.
No 3/4 bet range pre when super deep? Quote
11-13-2011 , 02:26 PM
Thanks for the many constructive posts so far. Constructing a positionally dependent 3bet range when this deep multiway is something I'm going to obv give more thought to and hopefully have the chance to employ. If we played 7 card stud as a big bet game, I could see us not altering our third street 3 bet range much when deep because the changes in equities from third to fourth street are typically smaller than in hold'em. We've gone from a 3 card hand to a 4 card hand. In hold'em the equity changes from preflop to post flop (a 2 card hand to a 5 card hand) are typically much greater and we have a more clearly defined hand. If the vil's betsize he will call is inelastic when he has flopped something he wants to continue with, then we stand to lose quite a bit of value by not 'building' the pot pre flop. But because the hand is fairly defined in holdem on the flop, and a large portion of live donkafish don't like folding, the vils betsize he will call is quite elastic. We will be able to 'make up' for quite a bit of the lost preflop value by betting larger otf. We have a post flop playing edge over the vils with more clearly defined hand equities which should allow us to exploit the crap out of them when we can have a wider range postflop.
No 3/4 bet range pre when super deep? Quote
02-24-2014 , 02:03 AM
Against 90% of llsnl villains, you should still be 3betting at least your premiums. Against really good aggro players OOP heads up, yes you should either have no 3bet range or you should have a wide 3bet range AND play very well post flop
No 3/4 bet range pre when super deep? Quote

      
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