Live 1/2/5 game, 10 handed, very juicy, everyone is ******ed. Avg stack is about $700. Villain highlighted in bold is a middle aged nobody, first time playing with him. He called 2 shoves preflop from tilted players for about $150 each time, once with 79s and once with A6s. He usually calls most hands preflop up to 6xBB ($30). He's raised preflop twice in the last 6 hours to 5xBB ($25) both times from UTG, once with AQo. He has built his stack just calling people down with whatever. HUD is probably something like 70/1/1.

Hero has shown down nothing but premiums. Big overpairs or 2 pair+. People have been mocking me as playing only AA/KK. Bought in for $200.

Hero BTN ($1400) is dealt 22.


UTG calls
EP calls
EP1 calls
MP ($1200) calls
MP2 calls
HJ calls
CO calls
Hero calls
SB calls
BB calls

Flop ($50) Ah 2h Qs

UTG bets $15
MP calls
Hero raises to $75
UTG folds
MP calls

Turn ($215) Ah 2h Qs 4s

MP checks
Hero bets $200
MP snap-raises to $400
Hero tank calls

River ($815) Ah 2h Qs 4s 5s

MP snap shoves ~$700
Hero folds

Logic: the gutshot got there

Check raise min on turn? Plus the lead on the flop should rule out any 3. This is either two pair or ax of spades.


I would have shipped the turn. As played I would tank and lean towards a call on river.

Gut shot got there? what about the way more likely flush...

Def ship turn, I think I this is probably a fold on the river

I think you are very off the mark on this hand.

OP- Kind of tough with that line for V to have a flush or straight, so I think we are dealing with AA/QQ/AQ, any of which could be limped at any time by a passive player (especially utg). The passive call of a bet and a raise and then min c/r on the turn really seem like the way a loose passive recreational playing would try to slowplay a "made hand" like those I mentioned on the flop. Sounds crazy but I think you can just fold to the C/R on the turn. If there's been table talk about what a tight player you are, I can't see him making this c/r lightly at all, so I really skew this more towards the top sets than top two.

On the river, if he had a made a flush or a straight would he really snap shove? Again this is a recreational player. The card probably scared him as much as you but he as emotionally attached to it already and doesn't want to feign weakness so he jams it in. If you have the 2s that removes the nut flush, but I really don't see this min c/r with top and bottom against your image+aggression anyway. Maybe he had AQ and that's why you're posting it, but more often than not I like folding. Although like I said you can consider it on the turn.

Do we never have AsXs in his range here? That seems a lot more likely. Calls flop with top pair and check min-raise turn with flush draw. Ships river when flush hits because he's excited and bad?

Grunch:

Flop seems fine obviously.
We are winning like always here.
On the rare chance that he limped AA/QQ pre in an attempt to limp/call or limp/rr he would certainly 3! the flop since it's sort of scary and there are lots of draws out there. So he never has a set when he just calls.

Turn: I think this is a pretty mandatory 3! for value here, and for protection against the bevy of draws that are still becoming a reality.
After you call the turn (and before you raise or shove) the pot has $1015 in it, I think a shove is pretty warranted.
Denying his odds with his drawing hands, and getting value while we are ahead should be our goal.

(Side note, your pot size is off by a whole $200 on the river.)

Villain mucked without comment on my fold, so no idea what he really had. I did not have the 2 of spades. I dont discount him limping AA since I see that tons from EP at this game, usually looking to 3bet preflop. However I cant see him just calling the flop with 2 hearts out there and then going ballistic on what I really consider a blank turn. Even if he turns 2 pair, I cant imagine him shipping the river so quickly with a pretty easy to spot 4 card straight out there now.

My biggest problem with it all is the fact that he has no idea what I have. Which means his perceived crushing range is basically top pair or better, which puts a lot of hands in his range to pull a move like this.

No. Think more about the reads and how the action has gone.

Yes he does. There has been table talk about how tight you are and you are making very aggressive plays.

So V has like AA/QQ/35hh only as a value range. Most people aren't shoving in 600bb without the nuts in a 1/2 game, even with a straddle. In 1.5+ years of playing live I have seen someone get in 600bb maybe twice. Seems that V can only have 35hh since limping QQ/AA in his spot after three callers would be suicide.

I agree with most of this, but I feel As2s could also be in V's range. When the turn hits, I can see V snap checkraising figuring "well no matter what BTN has, I got a ton of outs". I don't think V would snap shove on the river with a straight knowing that Hero could have one of two possible flush draws.

I would also heavily discount QQ/AA since we know Villain is willing to raise preflop. I have seen players limp AA behind other players because they never raise preflop ever. But, I have never seen someone that raises with 2nd tier premiums like AQo or JJ or something, but is not willing to raise with QQ or AA.

Have you seen v show any two pair hands yet? If so interested on how he played them?
Has V semi bluffed thus far?
Have you seen him trap or attempt to trap with big hands?
Would V overvalue TP GK ott?

With info given, I feel we can ALMOST completely exclude QQ or AA...I really feel this could be a flopped or turned two pair...AsXs is very possible as is 35hh.

I would of jammed turn personally (with known info).

I met villain again tonight, sat directly to his left and initiated small talk. He confessed to having 2 pair, A4 on the turn, thought it was the nuts. His logic for shoving the river? "There was already so much money out there".

shove turn wtf

Monsters under the bed syndrome. After tonights session you would see why.

3 bet this turn card. You crush almost all Villain's range here. AA/QQ seem next to impossible given preflop action and that villain flatted two flop bets. 44 is never flatting two flop bets. That leaves 35 with only one combo 35hh being possible and a wide range of hands we beat. A2ss/A3ss/56hh/45hh or a random K3hh or K5hh are all hands which could take this line. Less likely villian could of flopped AQ and decided to wait till turn to raise a non heart. AP, it's tough to call river. Villains just don't bluff enough here and shoving 2 pair seems like major spewing.

Against an idiot, I am hardly ever folding a set. This is not one of the hardly evers.

Live passive players dont raise draws, at least not on the turn and definitely not with as much action as had taken place. His range is exclusively turned 2 pairs and the nuts. I just stoved it at 60% my favor, which means it was a bad fold. I was playing scared money, not used to playing this deep, and was unable to properly assess the pot size at the time, let alone run pokerstove. I swear on my life if I had mobile stove opened and got this query I would have snap called. God oh god why couldnt that turn card have been an 8 and he had A8.

Lesson learned, dont play 700BB's deep if you cant stomach losing it all in a single hand.

Yea, shoving turn. Ap: i probably tank forever and call river. Def a gross spot and run out.

I think you are completely off the mark with what I was saying... all I said was him having a flush (AsXs type hand) is way more likely than 4x.

That being said, I actually think he does show up with AsXs fairly often