Hi guys,

I have been reading twoplustwo for several years but have finally got round to joining.

I am making the transition from online play (NL25-NL50) to live play, and this has been my favourite forum to read as of late.

This hand is from my second ever live cash game session, and was played last Saturday night at Dusk Til Dawn poker room in Nottingham, England.


Villain: Middle aged white guy, playing after busting from the tournament that is running. Dealer has to remind hime every time it is his turn to act. Has been pre-flop raiser about twice an orbit.

Hero: Tight. Been at the table about an hour and not played any hands of note.


£0.5/£1 NL (8 handed)

Even though the rake is harsh (10% up to £6), i feel comfortable at these stakes whilst i get a feel for live play.



Villain (MP, £120) raises to 5, his standard raise. Folds to hero in CO who is dealt AK. Hero calls, all others fold.

I put his range as any PP>77, any two paint cards, SCs. I call as i feel i can still win a big pot post-flop if i hit a pair. Also if i raise i think he will put me on AK.


Flop (£11.5) K, 7, 4

Villain bets £10, Hero thinks for a while then raises to £28. Villain asks how much i have, i let him see it (i am in the 1 seat), then he thinks for about 5 seconds and calls.

Thought on flop: I feel he will bet his entire range, and call my raise with any king, flush draw or stubborn big PP.


Turn (£67.5) 2

Villain checks, Hero?

Any opinions on my thought process and play are appreciated.




Reidy

I like a slightly bigger flop raise but it is not a problem. Now shove turn.

I don't get why we're shoving turn, especially with the scare card coming in. Seems to me only better hands call us here and worse hands fold (especially weaker Ks and pocket pairs).

Is it simply because the effective stack is just 1.5 of pot and we're kinda committed with TP?

Meh, maybe I'm taking pot control too far, especially with these stack sizes, but I pretty much check behind on any turn card (let alone a scary one like this one) and then think about snapping off bluffs on the river (or perhaps getting paid off with worse hands if checked to again and turn/river aren't as scary).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Don't get scared every time a flush completes.

ETA: I was probably checking behind on the turn regardless of whether the flush completed.

What hands call a shove here (of 1.5 times the pot no less) that we're beating? The only ones I can think of are like a big pocket pair with a flush draw; everything else folds, no?

Again, this might have something to do with stack sizes relative to the pot at this point on the turn (something admittedly that I haven't quite gotten a handle on), so if it's more to do with that that's fine.

Yeah, shoving is more of an over bet than i noticed. I am dumb.

You can check back for value too, not just because you're afraid of the flush. Would he put you on a double barrel if you bet again? Probably not.

The biggest problem with this hand is pf, because you called, not raised. The raise on the flop is awful. If he's cbetting with air, he's folding. If he hit a set, he's never folding. He might call the raise with TP, but is going to fold to any more pressure.

On the turn, I'm checking behind. If he has TP, your entire range is now beating him if you bet. You can't call a c/r, so a bet gains you nothing.

Having to bet/fold is not always reason to not bet. Villain could have Kx with a club draw that will peel.

There are clear drawback to raising but saying it is awful is a gross exaggeration. We'd need far more of an idea about what he's doing with different parts of his range to decide what is best. For example, if he is never barrelling air and smaller pocket pairs, there is virtually no upside to flatting. We sometimes get a bit more value if he improves to ax but sometimes get stacked when he improves to a set.

I'm not saying calling the flop is bad, it could be the right play in many spots but raising is also best v some player types.

I can't believe ONE person has mentioned this.

Awful, really? The board does have a flush draw. Plus I think big pocket pairs (especially those containing a club) still call a lot here just in case we're FOS / on the draw ourselves / to see a lucky turn / etc.

I also don't see what's particularly awful about simply calling preflop. If there was a lotta dead money in the pot thanks to other callers then I'm definitely leaning towards 3betting, but HU in position, meh - what's so horrible about calling (not that I'm opposed to 3betting)?

GcluelessNLnoobG

How do you interpret villain asking how much I have left? Is he trying to intimidate me by making me think i am playing for my stack? Seeing if he has implied odds to call for a draw? Trying to get a tell from my reaction to the question?

I thought the most obvious reason was he was on a draw, but being new to live play wasn't sure what the other reasons could be.

The primary reason it is awful is that Hero really doesn't know why he's raising other than, "ZOMG, I've got TP." Hero needs to think about what he wants to represent.

The bet sizing and question on the turn reflects this. If he wanted to price out draws, he'd bet more. If he wants to stack off with this hand, he wouldn't have a question on the turn. There aren't a lot of hands in his range with Kx. Every bad villain puts people on AK, so smaller pairs are fleeing the scene.

The best that can be said is that on the turn, the villain is probably as confused as the Hero as to what is going on. Of course, if he has a flush, he doesn't care what Hero has.

c/r larger, jam turn.

As played if there's enough chips in your stack to b/f the turn, then that's the right play. Otherwise just jambo.

Then put venice_10 on ignore and don't take him off until he learns to play poker.

My bad. Just stack off with TPTK every time you have it. A proven winner.

raise this preflop 9 times out of 10. the hand plays so differently when you have the lead and position.

Well **** me, a disagreement where we can actually come to some agreement. So our issue is in lack of detail. Flop raise is not bad per se, but as you rightly point out, should be part of a thought process which includes the turn. Sizing obviously matters and could be better.

I'll say what we are repping is of middling importance, much more than being balanced, much less than what we expect villain to do with his range on this and forthcoming streets.

Agreed, solid point here.

If you don't know what to do, then play it the easy way. Widen villain's bluff range and call call call.

IMO there is a lot of value in raising in a vacuum, but if you misplay later streets, bloating pot will only magnify the $ cost of your mistakes.