$3/5

Villain: big stack at the table. He's been playing very passively preflop limping in about half of the hands he's dealt. He seems to be fairly passive postflop as well; but has been taking down pots by showing down strong hands. Running really hot has built his stack to about $1500.


Hero is dealt 78 in the BB with about $550 behind. 4 limpers and the SB completes. so its 6-way to the flop.

875 with two diamonds (Pot~ $30)

Hero bets $25.

Villain calls. Short stack goes all in for about $130.
Folded around to Hero who calls. Short stack was fairly new to the table but seemed loose and fishy enough to be shoving here with a worse hand.

Action is back on villain who goes all in.

Hero? Could villain be going crazy here with a worse two pair which is definitely in his limping range. Or is this shove into a protected pot almost always the nuts.

Feels like an over pair to me, something like 10s or JJ, trying to push out a flush draw. Why re-shove with 69 here?

could be any number of things but there are a lot of big draws looking to isolate the shove in his range. as it stands you should have been the one isolating and your call of shorty really put you in a bind. You're getting 2/1 on your money so you have to call. But you're probably behind.

There is $340 in the pot when it gets to villian. He could shove a fairly wide range here, such as set, 2p, and combos such as pair+fd, pair+oesd, fd+oesd. I'd call and expect to see K6dd/Q6dd type of hands a lot (he's ahead of 2p if all the 9s, 4s, and diamonds are still in the deck, and there is a ton of equity in him getting you to fold if you have a better flush draw or even the same oesd).

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Villain at best has a 6 in his hand and two diamonds. I think often not this many outs though, I'm being generous for the following math. You're getting almost exactly 2:1 and if he has that many outs you're flipping. So calling is +EV.

I have no reason to think you're behind right now.

But I would have shoved. For Villain to flat the 25 first time around, then over shove, I don't think he ever does that with 55, he'd probably just love your PSB lead and raise, so I'm not worried about any set and shoving would get him to fold his drawy hand.

i think you guys overestimate the number of drawing hands a passive preflop/passive postflop player will have in his range once he 3bet shoves the flop.

I agree 100% here.
I mean if we think villain is passive postflop, we don't really expect him to be shoving in marginal spots.

OP, with us holding top 2, it's actually somewhat harder for him to be holding another type of 2p hand. There's only 1 combo of each 77/88, 6 of 55, and 6 of each 8/5 and 7/5.

We're looking to have to call 420 to about 840 so we're getting just about 2:1. I'm just not sure we're good 33% of the time here against a passive villain that overshoves.

not raising yourself was a mistake. I very much doubt he's call/shoving worse than top two. Accidentally saved yourself money.

See thread title and act accordingly.

Read bold.

this type of villain always has it.

Mama told me 30 yrs ago, "Don't get stacked in a limped pot". I stand by this rule big time. Until yesterday. Super fishy 1-3 nl game, lots of PF raising with multiple callers. I pick up Aces utg, limp so I can LRR, and sure as hell 7 people limp.

I bet $15 on a Q84 rainbow board, get raised to $50, (I started with about $250) by a total fish that overplays his hands big time. So I get another dose of fancy play syndrome and decide to flat and let him fire the turn.

Turn 3, he fires $100, I call.
River 3, I stick my last $100 in because I narrowed him down to Q8, Q4s, or 84, all two pair hands or KQ, QJ, QT, all hands he'll call the last $100 with too.

He turbo calls and flips over Q3.

I slap my forehead, knowing I'm an idiot. Rebuy $500, end session +$265. But still pissed I stacked myself in a limped pot.

lol @ LRR AA utg... people still do that in 2013!??? lololol

For me it's rare, but in the right games it can be great. People can LRR pretty wide ranges 5-10 and lower.

10 yrs ago it was 99% AA, 1% KK. But today it can be 98s even

Once villain shoved I couldn't put him on a drawing hand. He was playing his draws pretty passively from what I've seen and if he did have some type of combo draw he would have flatted. Figured he either had set or flopped straight so I mucked my hand.
Short stack showed KJdd and turned a flush against villains 96.

shakes head.

Always good to see this happen. The more tilting suckouts the better!

Yeah really agree here. Lots of these types of guys love to play insane hands for a limp or small raise preflop, but when the big money goes in they will always have it. It's actually really iimportant to punish these types of players preflop by getting behind them and raising out their limps whenever possible. Frustrates them and is +EV